Author Topic: children in masks NYC  (Read 2374 times)

Offline 80JHer

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
children in masks NYC
« on: April 14, 2021, 04:42:50 PM »
So when can we relax the mask rules for kids here in NYC?  2/3 of the health organizations (UNICEF & WHO) recommend no masks ever for kids 5 and younger, kids 6-11 shouldn't wear them either except if there are around someone at high risk.  So now that most adults are vaccinated, or have had the chance.  What are we waiting for?  When can the community start to relax the rules a bit? 

For whats its worth, i not even talking about inside, I just mean walking the streets and the playgrounds.  let see some faces again. 

If you leave the NYC metro area, its like a whole new smiling world...


Online palomita

  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 04:54:14 PM »
The answer, unfortunately, is that it's way too soon.  There is emerging evidence that some of the new variants, like B.1.1.7, are a lot more transmissible among kids in school and other congregate settings and some variants may be associated with vaccine breakthrough cases. (https://khn.org/morning-breakout/kids-play-huge-role-in-spreading-b-1-1-7-variant-osterholm-says/)

What we are waiting for is more data on variants and for a larger proportion of our population to be vaccinated.  We have made it so far and I know we are tired, but this is not the time to start relaxing on the proven core-4 measures (masking, social distancing, hand washing, stay home when feeling sick).

There's no rush.

Offline Reverse_Seared

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Lived here since: 2021
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2021, 04:54:39 PM »
Over time, mask guidance has evolved, but one concern has always been that frequently touching masks negates the benefits and can even increase exposure to germs (dirty hands touch dirty faces and then other people or surfaces and so on). The younger the child, the more likely they are to fiddle with their masks (and they’re unlikely to be infected or contagious anyway).

But realistically, given what the community has been through, their typical political leanings, and the trust placed in Dr. Fauci, I don’t expect any change until Fauci makes a call. And that will be based on some mixture of science, public health intuition, and politicking. I would guess it doesn’t change until 2022 but would love for things to move faster in alignment with mass vaccination.

Offline 80JHer

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2021, 07:00:32 PM »
I am not talking about indoor congregate settings like school, I'm talking about walking on the sidewalks and running in the playground outside. 

Again 2 out of 3 health org's  (WHO & UNICEF) do not recommend anyone exercises with a mask on, BJSM just today came out with cloth masks lead to 29% decrease in VO2max.  Outdoor transmission is something like 1 out of every 1000 cases.   Yet its okay for my child to spend 2 hours running in a wet dirty mask?

forget for a second  the psychological harm of not seeing human faces, or the developmental delays without seeing mouths and word form. I want to know what are the physical dangers we are doing to our children, if we are going against other health org's recommendation.  Let them breath. lets take these masks off out kids.  the vulnerable our protected, most adults are vaccinated. 


Offline Matt

  • Council Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 378
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 08:54:51 AM »
I am not talking about indoor congregate settings like school, I'm talking about walking on the sidewalks and running in the playground outside. 

Again 2 out of 3 health org's  (WHO & UNICEF) do not recommend anyone exercises with a mask on, BJSM just today came out with cloth masks lead to 29% decrease in VO2max.  Outdoor transmission is something like 1 out of every 1000 cases.   Yet its okay for my child to spend 2 hours running in a wet dirty mask?

forget for a second  the psychological harm of not seeing human faces, or the developmental delays without seeing mouths and word form. I want to know what are the physical dangers we are doing to our children, if we are going against other health org's recommendation.  Let them breath. lets take these masks off out kids.  the vulnerable our protected, most adults are vaccinated.

I agree with palomita. It is too soon. Most adults are not yet vaccinated - as of yesterday morning only 28% of NYC residents are fully vaccinated and 43% have received one dose.

Source:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page

Offline 80JHer

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 09:47:16 AM »
sorry, my last response was sloppy and ranty...

My main point, is when can we start acting like the rest of the northeast?  In school, of course wear a mask; going into grocery store, of course; but take it off when your outside.  We have to begin weighing the physical harm (inhaling plastics, flame retardants, vo2max) and physiological harm of prolonged mask wearing.  I can not overstate how refreshing/calming it is to see people's faces every time I leave NYC. 

From the beginning and continues today the driver of infection is indoor congregate settings, not being outside on the sidewalk.  Its been recently reported only 1 out over 1000 case is from outside exposure.   So when will "the science" catch up to our brains? 

Look, i understand everyone is not fully vaccinated yet, but the reality is some adults will choose not to do it. I do not think it is fair to make the children wait indefinitely.  At some point (mid may?!?!?!) I hope a critical mass of parents will start to agree with me and we can collectively take the masks off these poor kids...

Offline Reverse_Seared

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Lived here since: 2021
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 09:55:38 AM »
Once everyone who wants to get vaccinated has done so, then it’ll make sense to reduce precautions. That way, everyone has gotten the chance to make their choice about how careful they want to be, while recognizing that once you’re as protected as possible, you have to return to a more normal life (unless you intend to continue living with those precautions forever).

Let’s hope mid-May is the ticket!

Offline lindsey

  • Council Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 259
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 02:01:40 PM »
Might I humbly suggest that many kids still want to wear masks, their parents support them wearing masks, and we could do without the “poor kids” framing on something that doesn’t harm you and in fact is probably helping to keep you safe.
We’ve gotten used to it but Covid is still spreading at very high levels in NYC and these new variants are no joke.

Offline JHResident

  • Council Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 254
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 08:13:08 PM »
Masks are in no way harmful to children except possibly the strings getting caught on playground equipment and causing an injury. If you would like to learn more, you can check what Healthy Children says at https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Mask-Mythbusters.aspx

Offline 80JHer

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 06:36:51 PM »
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Offline Reverse_Seared

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Lived here since: 2021
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 06:48:41 PM »
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

If you’re worried about your own children, just buy them super comfortable masks that block essentially no airflow and solve for the “security theater” component of mask wearing. The effective masks like N95s are way less comfortable because that’s the price we pay for actual filtration.

Offline dssjh

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 5182
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 07:10:34 PM »
to paraphrase those who oppose rules about wearing masks and such, if you don't like masks and social distancing, simply stay home. don't go outside. don't let fear of the rest of us keep you from taking part in society.

Offline Bill

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 08:33:14 PM »
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Even junk science should make some sense. The article cited is from one Baruch Vainshelboim, who identifies himself as a clinical exercise physiologist, with a degree from University of Porto in Portugal. It is published in  "Medical Hypotheses", which is a journal dedicated to publishing "radical, speculative and non-mainstream scientific ideas." It is, in short, nonsense that would have gotten no notice had it not been picked up by the anti-science Trumpian far right. No reputable public health expert or physician has supported the preposterous claims made by "Dr" Vainshelboim about the supposedly deadly dangers of face masks. Keep using them and keep your kids safe. The new variants spreading in NYC are far more contagious than the old one, and even if they don't kill you they can mess up your life, or that of your child, for a long time to come.

Offline JHResident

  • Council Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 254
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 05:50:39 PM »
The question I have is why anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are always trying to get others to go along with them? Do what you think is right for your children if you must, but leave my children and other people's children alone. In answer to your question, it will be safe for everyone to go without masks once we have herd immunity. That will occur when enough people are vaccinated or survive Covid that it can't spread through the community. To live in a neighborhood where thousands have died from this virus and have someone suggest that seeing the smiling faces of children is somehow more important than saving lives dismays me. How many children have died from wearing masks as opposed to how many children have died or been orphaned by people not wearing masks? Show me the math.

Online palomita

  • Resident
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 07:21:40 PM »
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

This is not a response to 80JHer, whose mind is made up, but to anyone else casually reading this thread. Please note (as Bill already has), the article cited is from a journal called Medical HYPOTHESES and the article is called "Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health HYPOTHESIS."  It is written by an exercise physiologist at the Palo Alto VA, the article is not "from Stanford."

When you go to medical school (as I have), you receive formal training on how to evaluate a published study to see if it is rigorous and if the data matches the conclusions.  The publication cited above is at best described as an editorial, I sincerely hope no one reads 80JHer's excerpt and misunderstands it as science.  The author sets up his argument by saying that hypoxemia during cardiac arrest causes brain death.  No serious person can compare the physiologic effects of wearing a mask to the effects of cardiac arrest.  Literally anything becomes detrimental in excess, including water and oxygen.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: children in masks NYC
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 07:21:40 PM »