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Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: 80JHer on April 14, 2021, 04:42:50 PM

Title: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on April 14, 2021, 04:42:50 PM
So when can we relax the mask rules for kids here in NYC?  2/3 of the health organizations (UNICEF & WHO) recommend no masks ever for kids 5 and younger, kids 6-11 shouldn't wear them either except if there are around someone at high risk.  So now that most adults are vaccinated, or have had the chance.  What are we waiting for?  When can the community start to relax the rules a bit? 

For whats its worth, i not even talking about inside, I just mean walking the streets and the playgrounds.  let see some faces again. 

If you leave the NYC metro area, its like a whole new smiling world...

Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on April 14, 2021, 04:54:14 PM
The answer, unfortunately, is that it's way too soon.  There is emerging evidence that some of the new variants, like B.1.1.7, are a lot more transmissible among kids in school and other congregate settings and some variants may be associated with vaccine breakthrough cases. (https://khn.org/morning-breakout/kids-play-huge-role-in-spreading-b-1-1-7-variant-osterholm-says/)

What we are waiting for is more data on variants and for a larger proportion of our population to be vaccinated.  We have made it so far and I know we are tired, but this is not the time to start relaxing on the proven core-4 measures (masking, social distancing, hand washing, stay home when feeling sick).

There's no rush.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Reverse_Seared on April 14, 2021, 04:54:39 PM
Over time, mask guidance has evolved, but one concern has always been that frequently touching masks negates the benefits and can even increase exposure to germs (dirty hands touch dirty faces and then other people or surfaces and so on). The younger the child, the more likely they are to fiddle with their masks (and they’re unlikely to be infected or contagious anyway).

But realistically, given what the community has been through, their typical political leanings, and the trust placed in Dr. Fauci, I don’t expect any change until Fauci makes a call. And that will be based on some mixture of science, public health intuition, and politicking. I would guess it doesn’t change until 2022 but would love for things to move faster in alignment with mass vaccination.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on April 14, 2021, 07:00:32 PM
I am not talking about indoor congregate settings like school, I'm talking about walking on the sidewalks and running in the playground outside. 

Again 2 out of 3 health org's  (WHO & UNICEF) do not recommend anyone exercises with a mask on, BJSM just today came out with cloth masks lead to 29% decrease in VO2max.  Outdoor transmission is something like 1 out of every 1000 cases.   Yet its okay for my child to spend 2 hours running in a wet dirty mask?

forget for a second  the psychological harm of not seeing human faces, or the developmental delays without seeing mouths and word form. I want to know what are the physical dangers we are doing to our children, if we are going against other health org's recommendation.  Let them breath. lets take these masks off out kids.  the vulnerable our protected, most adults are vaccinated. 

Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Matt on April 15, 2021, 08:54:51 AM
I am not talking about indoor congregate settings like school, I'm talking about walking on the sidewalks and running in the playground outside. 

Again 2 out of 3 health org's  (WHO & UNICEF) do not recommend anyone exercises with a mask on, BJSM just today came out with cloth masks lead to 29% decrease in VO2max.  Outdoor transmission is something like 1 out of every 1000 cases.   Yet its okay for my child to spend 2 hours running in a wet dirty mask?

forget for a second  the psychological harm of not seeing human faces, or the developmental delays without seeing mouths and word form. I want to know what are the physical dangers we are doing to our children, if we are going against other health org's recommendation.  Let them breath. lets take these masks off out kids.  the vulnerable our protected, most adults are vaccinated.

I agree with palomita. It is too soon. Most adults are not yet vaccinated - as of yesterday morning only 28% of NYC residents are fully vaccinated and 43% have received one dose.

Source:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page (https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page)
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on April 15, 2021, 09:47:16 AM
sorry, my last response was sloppy and ranty...

My main point, is when can we start acting like the rest of the northeast?  In school, of course wear a mask; going into grocery store, of course; but take it off when your outside.  We have to begin weighing the physical harm (inhaling plastics, flame retardants, vo2max) and physiological harm of prolonged mask wearing.  I can not overstate how refreshing/calming it is to see people's faces every time I leave NYC. 

From the beginning and continues today the driver of infection is indoor congregate settings, not being outside on the sidewalk.  Its been recently reported only 1 out over 1000 case is from outside exposure.   So when will "the science" catch up to our brains? 

Look, i understand everyone is not fully vaccinated yet, but the reality is some adults will choose not to do it. I do not think it is fair to make the children wait indefinitely.  At some point (mid may?!?!?!) I hope a critical mass of parents will start to agree with me and we can collectively take the masks off these poor kids...
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Reverse_Seared on April 15, 2021, 09:55:38 AM
Once everyone who wants to get vaccinated has done so, then it’ll make sense to reduce precautions. That way, everyone has gotten the chance to make their choice about how careful they want to be, while recognizing that once you’re as protected as possible, you have to return to a more normal life (unless you intend to continue living with those precautions forever).

Let’s hope mid-May is the ticket!
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: lindsey on April 16, 2021, 02:01:40 PM
Might I humbly suggest that many kids still want to wear masks, their parents support them wearing masks, and we could do without the “poor kids” framing on something that doesn’t harm you and in fact is probably helping to keep you safe.
We’ve gotten used to it but Covid is still spreading at very high levels in NYC and these new variants are no joke.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: JHResident on April 16, 2021, 08:13:08 PM
Masks are in no way harmful to children except possibly the strings getting caught on playground equipment and causing an injury. If you would like to learn more, you can check what Healthy Children says at https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Mask-Mythbusters.aspx (https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Mask-Mythbusters.aspx)
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on April 18, 2021, 06:36:51 PM
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Reverse_Seared on April 18, 2021, 06:48:41 PM
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

If you’re worried about your own children, just buy them super comfortable masks that block essentially no airflow and solve for the “security theater” component of mask wearing. The effective masks like N95s are way less comfortable because that’s the price we pay for actual filtration.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: dssjh on April 18, 2021, 07:10:34 PM
to paraphrase those who oppose rules about wearing masks and such, if you don't like masks and social distancing, simply stay home. don't go outside. don't let fear of the rest of us keep you from taking part in society.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Bill on April 18, 2021, 08:33:14 PM
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Even junk science should make some sense. The article cited is from one Baruch Vainshelboim, who identifies himself as a clinical exercise physiologist, with a degree from University of Porto in Portugal. It is published in  "Medical Hypotheses", which is a journal dedicated to publishing "radical, speculative and non-mainstream scientific ideas." It is, in short, nonsense that would have gotten no notice had it not been picked up by the anti-science Trumpian far right. No reputable public health expert or physician has supported the preposterous claims made by "Dr" Vainshelboim about the supposedly deadly dangers of face masks. Keep using them and keep your kids safe. The new variants spreading in NYC are far more contagious than the old one, and even if they don't kill you they can mess up your life, or that of your child, for a long time to come.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: JHResident on April 19, 2021, 05:50:39 PM
The question I have is why anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are always trying to get others to go along with them? Do what you think is right for your children if you must, but leave my children and other people's children alone. In answer to your question, it will be safe for everyone to go without masks once we have herd immunity. That will occur when enough people are vaccinated or survive Covid that it can't spread through the community. To live in a neighborhood where thousands have died from this virus and have someone suggest that seeing the smiling faces of children is somehow more important than saving lives dismays me. How many children have died from wearing masks as opposed to how many children have died or been orphaned by people not wearing masks? Show me the math.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on April 19, 2021, 07:21:40 PM
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

This is not a response to 80JHer, whose mind is made up, but to anyone else casually reading this thread. Please note (as Bill already has), the article cited is from a journal called Medical HYPOTHESES and the article is called "Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health HYPOTHESIS."  It is written by an exercise physiologist at the Palo Alto VA, the article is not "from Stanford."

When you go to medical school (as I have), you receive formal training on how to evaluate a published study to see if it is rigorous and if the data matches the conclusions.  The publication cited above is at best described as an editorial, I sincerely hope no one reads 80JHer's excerpt and misunderstands it as science.  The author sets up his argument by saying that hypoxemia during cardiac arrest causes brain death.  No serious person can compare the physiologic effects of wearing a mask to the effects of cardiac arrest.  Literally anything becomes detrimental in excess, including water and oxygen.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: JHResident on April 19, 2021, 11:11:53 PM
If anyone wants medical data on children and COVID-19, the American Academy of Pediatrics has cumulative totals from 43 states, NYC and Guam in a PDF printout of a presentation at https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%204.15.21%20FINAL.pdf (https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%204.15.21%20FINAL.pdf)

NYS doesn't provide age statistics for COVID to the data aggregators, but NYC totals are included.  279 Between 5 and 10 children have died from COVID-19 in the reporting states and territories.

The WHO's recommendations for children to wear masks are as follows:
Quote
Children aged 5 years and under should not be required to wear masks. This is based on the safety and overall interest of the child and the capacity to appropriately use a mask with minimal assistance.

WHO and UNICEF advise that the decision to use masks for children aged 6-11 should be based on the following factors:
  • Whether there is widespread transmission in the area where the child resides
  • The ability of the child to safely and appropriately use a mask
  • Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
  • Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
  • Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers
  • Specific settings and interactions the child has with other people who are at high risk of developing serious illness, such as the elderly and those with other underlying health conditions
WHO and UNICEF advise that children aged 12 and over should wear a mask under the same conditions as adults, in particular when they cannot guarantee at least a 1-metre distance from others and there is widespread transmission in the area.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: DijoninJH on April 20, 2021, 10:33:27 AM
This posting just makes me think of this Simpsons episode: https://youtu.be/phSxxVJCZsc
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on April 21, 2021, 11:18:28 PM
Oh, I had not realized the science around face masks was settled, the website says they are safe, got it!

Ever read James Nestor, Breathe?  The nose is for breathing the mouth is for eating.  The problem is masks make you mouth breath, mouth breathing is devastating to your health.   So these children K-2nd grade go 30 hours a week with a 20 minute lunch break.  Then they are usually good for about another 10 hours during  the week at the park.   So 40 plus hours in a mask.  how many hours do you put in?  How many breaks do you get?  We are asking these children to take on a serious burden, they do it because they are obedient.   I strongly disagree with you both above, the long term affect of these could be catastrophic.  Recently released from Stanford .....

“ Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Even junk science should make some sense. The article cited is from one Baruch Vainshelboim, who identifies himself as a clinical exercise physiologist, with a degree from University of Porto in Portugal. It is published in  "Medical Hypotheses", which is a journal dedicated to publishing "radical, speculative and non-mainstream scientific ideas." It is, in short, nonsense that would have gotten no notice had it not been picked up by the anti-science Trumpian far right. No reputable public health expert or physician has supported the preposterous claims made by "Dr" Vainshelboim about the supposedly deadly dangers of face masks. Keep using them and keep your kids safe. The new variants spreading in NYC are far more contagious than the old one, and even if they don't kill you they can mess up your life, or that of your child, for a long time to come.

Stanford is officially disavowing this article and it turns out the author hasn’t even been affiliated with the Palo Alto VA since 2016! They are rightly embarrassed people are associating this w them...

https://twitter.com/stanfordmed/status/1384957123864444930?s=21
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on April 27, 2021, 04:01:02 PM
What a difference 2 weeks make!  I just wanted kids to take the damn things off outside, now it seems like we can all go maskless outside!!!  Rejoice, science! 

Great update today from the CDC
https://www.wyff4.com/article/cdc-loosens-new-mask-guidance/36266371#
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on April 27, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
What a difference 2 weeks make!  I just wanted kids to take the damn things off outside, now it seems like we can all go maskless outside!!!  Rejoice, science! 

Great update today from the CDC
https://www.wyff4.com/article/cdc-loosens-new-mask-guidance/36266371#

To clarify, the CDC update says fully vaccinated adults in small groups can go maskless outside.  Now that all state-run vaccine sites are accepting walk-ins for everyone 16+, hopefully this will soon approach "all" adults.  But unvaccinated people (necessarily including those under 16 since they can't be vaccinated yet) are still advised to continue masking both indoors and out, and even vaccinated people in large outdoor gatherings are advised to continue masking.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: JHResident on April 28, 2021, 02:30:12 PM
now it seems like we can all go maskless outside!!!  Rejoice, science! 

Great update today from the CDC
https://www.wyff4.com/article/cdc-loosens-new-mask-guidance/36266371#
I don't think you're representing the guidance accurately. When your children are fully vaccinated, you can tell them to take their masks off when outside. That might be some time in the fall. I believe they are going to request emergency authorization for children in the 12 to 16 age group sooner.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: KGDHP on April 28, 2021, 03:16:45 PM
What a difference 2 weeks make!  I just wanted kids to take the damn things off outside, now it seems like we can all go maskless outside!!!  Rejoice, science! 

Great update today from the CDC
https://www.wyff4.com/article/cdc-loosens-new-mask-guidance/36266371#

I for one am thrilled that the common sense has prevailed. And I can’t wait for the inevitable glares to come my way as I walk down 34th Ave maskless. I’ll just make sure to tell everyone to “trust the science!”
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: Bill on April 30, 2021, 08:49:51 AM
Seemed like 90 percent of the people walking on 34th Ave. today were wearing masks. Please be tolerant of them for not being so quick to "trust the science"-- a once-size-fits-all CDC recommendation covering everything from Wyoming to the sidewalks of NYC -- a lot of them are basing their behavior on the lived experience of seeing loved-ones and neighbors die from the pandemic.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on May 07, 2021, 09:38:56 AM
50% of adults over 18 are FULLY vaccinated in JH
estimates 30% of community has antibodies
case postivity rate in NYC yesterday was 1.2%

This is all FANTASTIC news and should amplified x1000 across media (paper & social)

Why is almost everyone still in masks, what is happening?  The community is clearly going against recommendations of the CDC, we are acting like its April of 2020. 

I worry we are creating a dangerous brain changes, by continuing to pretend everyone is sick and outdoor transmission is a thing. 
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: DijoninJH on May 07, 2021, 10:35:24 AM
What I worry about are people who feel the need to make a post on a community discussion board, about their neighbors who just survived a pandemic, in one of the most heavily hit areas, who choose to keep up their caution at this point.

Don't wear your mask outside. That's your choice at this point, since yes CDC has updated their recommendation.

Those of us who are choosing to keep the practice a bit longer does not equate to "creating a dangerous brain change" (scientific term) for society.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on May 07, 2021, 05:13:04 PM
What I worry about are people who feel the need to make a post on a community discussion board, about their neighbors who just survived a pandemic, in one of the most heavily hit areas, who choose to keep up their caution at this point.

Don't wear your mask outside. That's your choice at this point, since yes CDC has updated their recommendation.

Those of us who are choosing to keep the practice a bit longer does not equate to "creating a dangerous brain change" (scientific term) for society.

Thank you Dijon. Honestly I don't know why I keep bothering to respond here because I feel like 80JHer is just trolling at this point, but you are so right, why do they care so much whether other people continue to feel it is a sign of respect for others? Or it if gives them a sense of security after the awfulness of this past year?

This "masks cause brain damage" argument is really mind-boggling to me. 80JHer, do you truly believe all the doctors, nurses, and other health care workers who have been working in N95s throughout the pandemic are now brain damaged from all this mask wearing? Who do you intend to get your medical care from in the future? I guess you can ask a never-masked rando off the street take your appendix out since their brain is more intact than these hypoxic, hypercarbic, CO2-poisoned doctors, but that seems unwise.

The one thing we do agree on is that the vaccination rates and infection rates are great news. Keep it up JH!!
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on May 12, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
For anyone genuinely wishing to understand and empathize with people hesitating to give up masking and other pandemic behaviors, this is a good article:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yye8/pandemic-safety-mask-lockdown-cant-quit-grief-trauma-anxiety
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: theplanesland on May 12, 2021, 10:33:43 AM
For anyone genuinely wishing to understand and empathize with people hesitating to give up masking and other pandemic behaviors, this is a good article:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93yye8/pandemic-safety-mask-lockdown-cant-quit-grief-trauma-anxiety

That's an absolutely terrific article.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: JHResident on May 13, 2021, 07:48:16 AM
pretend everyone is sick and outdoor transmission is a thing.
We don't really know whether outdoor transmission occurs. Due to resistance to the Test and Trace Corps efforts, there is limited information about the source of infections in New York City. I have seen estimates that 10% of infections were from outside, but there is no hard evidence either way. It is clear that vaccinated people can still get infected, so unvaccinated people should continue to be careful. Wearing a mask is a social courtesy to others, so those who are socially responsible may still want to be considerate of their neighbors. Also instead of telling others to take off their masks and trust the science, you may want to urge them to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on May 13, 2021, 09:47:28 AM
that is a great article from Vice, thanks for sharing.  It's terribly sad and tragic, however it sort of proves my point.  If you or your children can not walk down the street maskless without crippling fear, then unfortunately you have created a very real negative brain change, mainly anxiety.  If you continue to see everyone in the neighborhood draped in ppp, the harder it will be to correct course. 
Look, I posted about this because I care deeply about the mental health of the neighborhood myself and my children live in.  Based on what i see, i'm gravely concerned, so I spoke up.  I'm not trying to pick fights or be an asshole, I truly think the best may forward for everyone's mental health is to see more people maskless. 

 

that 10% number is garbage https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing/outdoor-covid-transmission-cdc-number.html
There is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table.

A little confirmation bias https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/kids-masks-outdoors-cdc/618856/
Continuing to expose kids to unnecessary fear has to end. Kids need to reconnect with their friends and practice reengaging in regular life. They need playgrounds and playdates, recess and recreation, sports and socialization. They can have this and see one another’s faces, taking in the full range of expression. Engaging with their peers and discharging pent-up stress can help prevent PTSD and pave the way for improved health and well-being.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: jh35 on May 13, 2021, 10:47:01 AM
that is a great article from Vice, thanks for sharing.  It's terribly sad and tragic, however it sort of proves my point.  If you or your children can not walk down the street maskless without crippling fear, then unfortunately you have created a very real negative brain change, mainly anxiety.  If you continue to see everyone in the neighborhood draped in ppp, the harder it will be to correct course. 
Look, I posted about this because I care deeply about the mental health of the neighborhood myself and my children live in.  Based on what i see, i'm gravely concerned, so I spoke up.  I'm not trying to pick fights or be an asshole, I truly think the best may forward for everyone's mental health is to see more people maskless. 

 

that 10% number is garbage https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/briefing/outdoor-covid-transmission-cdc-number.html
There is not a single documented Covid infection anywhere in the world from casual outdoor interactions, such as walking past someone on a street or eating at a nearby table.

A little confirmation bias https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/kids-masks-outdoors-cdc/618856/
Continuing to expose kids to unnecessary fear has to end. Kids need to reconnect with their friends and practice reengaging in regular life. They need playgrounds and playdates, recess and recreation, sports and socialization. They can have this and see one another’s faces, taking in the full range of expression. Engaging with their peers and discharging pent-up stress can help prevent PTSD and pave the way for improved health and well-being.

Headache
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: palomita on May 13, 2021, 12:34:59 PM
that is a great article from Vice, thanks for sharing.  It's terribly sad and tragic, however it sort of proves my point.  If you or your children can not walk down the street maskless without crippling fear, then unfortunately you have created a very real negative brain change, mainly anxiety.  If you continue to see everyone in the neighborhood draped in ppp, the harder it will be to correct course. 
Look, I posted about this because I care deeply about the mental health of the neighborhood myself and my children live in.  Based on what i see, i'm gravely concerned, so I spoke up.  I'm not trying to pick fights or be an asshole, I truly think the best may forward for everyone's mental health is to see more people maskless. 

While I appreciate that your intentions are good and you are not trying to be a jerk, please think about what you are saying. Telling people to move on from a traumatic experience in a way that makes you feel comfortable is problematic. You don't tell someone they've "grieved long enough" or had "enough time to move on" after a loss, and if you do, well you ARE an asshole (your word) even if you don't mean to be.

I am vaccinated, my young kids have had covid, and we still wear masks when we are outside and around others. We feel it is a sign of respect for our community which has been through a lot, we don't want our older or unvaccinated or otherwise vulnerable neighbors to have to wonder why we don't have them on. There is some serious projecting going on to say it's because we are "crippled by fear." My kids are happy, well-adjusted, and understand that this is a temporary thing we are doing to be able to see friends and do activities they love.

Look, I am a doctor have professional training in public health as well. There are individual behaviors that primarily harm the individual, like smoking or eating junk food. There are individual behaviors that have a real risk of harming others and thus should be regulated, things like driving drunk, having unsecured guns in your home, or not wearing a mask during a pandemic. And then there are individual behaviors that you might find weird or stupid but they don't hurt anybody, so you just let people live their lives and do what makes them happy, things like washing pre-washed lettuce. You've tried hard to argue that wearing a mask falls into the 1st or 2nd category, but it doesn't, it's the last one. I'm quite sure it will be easier just to explain this to your kids than it will be to convince our neighborhood to get over their pandemic trauma on your schedule.
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: 80JHer on June 04, 2021, 06:43:26 PM
Howard A. Zucker, MD, JD
New York State Commissioner of Health

"If there is any data or science that you are aware of that contradicts moving forward with this approach,
please let me know as soon as possible. We plan to make this guidance effective on Monday June 7."

HINT.....there isn't any


masks optional ..... rejoice!

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021-06/Letter_from_NYSDOH.pdf
Title: Re: children in masks NYC
Post by: petegart on June 04, 2021, 07:21:28 PM
In other countries around the world (yes -not the USA) if someone has already had covid they are not required to get the vaccine.  So if you look at the % of population that has already had Covid plus the % that are fully vaccinated - it stands to reason that nobody has to wear a mask.  I am left of Bernie Sanders & AOC, but it is time to move on. 
I received my vaccine and because I trust science I believe I will be safe going forward. 
It seems like 90% of people in JH are wearing masks outside on the street for no real reason.
My hope is that schools open up 100% the day after Labor Day.  100% in person teaching. 
Once that happens most things can go back to pre-pandemic normal..