Author Topic: The state of the RE market in Queens  (Read 18779 times)

Offline Shelby2

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The state of the RE market in Queens
« on: April 05, 2008, 08:02:33 AM »
Any comments on this?

There's an article in the Times today (April 5, 2008) called Taking the Pulse of the Boroughs.

The overall gist is that prices have dropped, but in the section on Queens, it starts off by saying "Queens may be the most difficult market to explain, because prices can vary by neighborhood and even by block. "

Then on the next page there are a few paragraphs on one couple's experience in Jackson Heights.

"Last month, Steven Toledo and his partner, Pedro Julio Serrano, signed a contract on a one-bedroom co-op in Jackson Heights for $220,000. They negotiated the original asking price down from $240,000 after pointing out to the seller’s agent, Jorge Mejia of the Argo Corporation, that the bathroom tiles needed to be replaced.

Mr. Toledo said they bought now because they didn’t think the apartment’s price would drop any further. The apartment they bought is a sponsor unit, and they had to put down only 10 percent, or $22,000. They also were able to get a mortgage at 6 percent interest.

Mr. Toledo pointed out that this is an established immigrant community, not a gentrified neighborhood that is dependent on Manhattan transplants for price appreciation.

“When I see other neighborhoods around there,” he said, “I think this neighborhood has so much room to grow.”


Offline ECG

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2008, 09:49:46 AM »
Generalizations again.

We just are not 'immigrant' or 'yuppy'! What about the many many native JH people who are, some of them, 4th generation natives. Don't we count here somewhere?

Glad to know that the prices are holding steady, though.

Sorry for the mini-rant. It probably belongs in another thread.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 11:11:15 AM »
Just noticed this paragraph in a "just updated" article about JH in Time Out NY Kids.

It says:
What you’ll payPrices range from $225,000 to $550,000 for a two-bedroom apartment, depending on amenities such as elevators, doormen, resident garages, balconies and fireplaces. One recent listing featured a 1,250-square-foot, three-bedroom, two-bath prewar apartment for $455,000. The unit included a full dining room, eat-in kitchen, hardwood floors and laundry in the basement. A 975-square-foot two-bedroom with two exposures listed for just $240,000. Broker Daniel Karatzas, of Beaudoin Realtor, was born in the area and wrote a book on Jackson Heights’ history. He is passionate about his native ’hood: “This area  has character and charm, and people move here because it’s a great place to raise kids.”

I find it odd that they chose to highlight a "975 square foot" 2 bedrrom for 240K.  In my experience (and I have been helping a friend apartment hunt) this price is well below market for a 2 bedroom apartment of that size in JH.  I suppose it's possible the unit is in Northridge, where I've noticed that prices tend to be lower than those within the historic district.

What I've seen lately in the 240K range are 750 sq foot one bedrooms.


Offline APG7714

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 09:22:34 PM »
Just noticed this paragraph in a "just updated" article about JH in Time Out NY Kids.

It says:
What you’ll payPrices range from $225,000 to $550,000 for a two-bedroom apartment, depending on amenities such as elevators, doormen, resident garages, balconies and fireplaces. One recent listing featured a 1,250-square-foot, three-bedroom, two-bath prewar apartment for $455,000. The unit included a full dining room, eat-in kitchen, hardwood floors and laundry in the basement. A 975-square-foot two-bedroom with two exposures listed for just $240,000. Broker Daniel Karatzas, of Beaudoin Realtor, was born in the area and wrote a book on Jackson Heights’ history. He is passionate about his native ’hood: “This area  has character and charm, and people move here because it’s a great place to raise kids.”

I find it odd that they chose to highlight a "975 square foot" 2 bedrrom for 240K.  In my experience (and I have been helping a friend apartment hunt) this price is well below market for a 2 bedroom apartment of that size in JH.  I suppose it's possible the unit is in Northridge, where I've noticed that prices tend to be lower than those within the historic district.

What I've seen lately in the 240K range are 750 sq foot one bedrooms.



the entire article is pretty much misleading and off point
apg7714
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Offline NYC Native

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 11:40:40 PM »
The market in Jackson Heights is in great shape and articles that generalize or do not differentiate between houses, condos and coops are simply irrelevant as far as I am concern.  Some 2 bedrooms are more like Jr4's and some Jr4's are bigger than 2 bedroom units.  I just placed a 2 bedroom in contract at "The Monterey" for $265k (cheap if you ask me).  The accepted offer was $240 as a handyman special but we are renovating for $25k  more.  Also just closed a $325k 2 bed - 2 full baths for $325 in the same bldg as a handyman special.  This gentleman just sold his 1 bedroom in Dunolly as well.  Meanwhile the building next to the Monterey will not even fetch $140 for a 1 bedroom handyman special.

100% owner occupied like the North ridge and similar will always get less for the same.  The Coops with liberal rules will fetch the hightest $$$ unless you are talking about a prestigious Bldg. JH residency is about 70% immigrant and that's what this country was built on.  If you are a JH liver than feel proud to be one of the few.  You are not making history, you are part of a wonderful history in this phenomenal part of our city.  If you just got in, you have to pay the lifers $200 fee...lol :2funny:.   On another note I have noticed a big number of people from the city looking more aggressively in the area. This may change demographics soon and bring more streamlined businesses to the area.  Not that theres anything wrong with it now but it would nice to have a "Toledo", "Keens Chop House" or even a "Burger haven" in the area. 

In all fairness, I have also seen lots of new places popping up in Northern Blvd and I would venture to say many members here don't like walking to Northern Blvd.  An open mind is the best way to experience your neighborhoods eateries.  I just hope they don't open another freaking chicken place in the area :buck2:.
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Offline NYC Native

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2008, 12:16:22 AM »
The Montery unit is not a 2 bedroom but a Jr4...I am correcting myself.  Sorry. :-\
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Offline eddiestjohns

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2008, 09:12:41 PM »
The market in Jackson Heights is in great shape and articles that generalize or do not differentiate between houses, condos and coops are simply irrelevant as far as I am concern.  Some 2 bedrooms are more like Jr4's and some Jr4's are bigger than 2 bedroom units.  I just placed a 2 bedroom in contract at "The Monterey" for $265k (cheap if you ask me).  The accepted offer was $240 as a handyman special but we are renovating for $25k  more.  Also just closed a $325k 2 bed - 2 full baths for $325 in the same bldg as a handyman special.  This gentleman just sold his 1 bedroom in Dunolly as well.  Meanwhile the building next to the Monterey will not even fetch $140 for a 1 bedroom handyman special.

100% owner occupied like the North ridge and similar will always get less for the same.  The Coops with liberal rules will fetch the hightest $$$ unless you are talking about a prestigious Bldg. JH residency is about 70% immigrant and that's what this country was built on.  If you are a JH liver than feel proud to be one of the few.  You are not making history, you are part of a wonderful history in this phenomenal part of our city.  If you just got in, you have to pay the lifers $200 fee...lol :2funny:.   On another note I have noticed a big number of people from the city looking more aggressively in the area. This may change demographics soon and bring more streamlined businesses to the area.  Not that theres anything wrong with it now but it would nice to have a "Toledo", "Keens Chop House" or even a "Burger haven" in the area. 

In all fairness, I have also seen lots of new places popping up in Northern Blvd and I would venture to say many members here don't like walking to Northern Blvd.  An open mind is the best way to experience your neighborhoods eateries.  I just hope they don't open another freaking chicken place in the area :buck2:.


I find your posts about real estate informative although I'm not sure if I agree with you about coops with liberal rules fetching a higher dollar unless they are in a prestigious building.  Many of the buildings withless flexible rules on subletting such as Southridge, Northridge, Linden Court  are either outside or on the fringe of the historic or most expensive part of the neighborhood.  Southridge and Northridge are further north and east from the the heart of JH and a longer walk to the train.  Linden Court is south of 37 ave and prices there seem to be lower than on the north side of 37 ave.  In any case I look forward to discussing more real estate with you at the 40+ get together.

Offline NYC Native

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 11:09:53 PM »
I personally will not touch Southridge and the likes with no sublet rules.  They actually have the lowest priced 2 bedroom units I have ever dealt with in the area for comparable units..  I would never bother marketing those units and I would recommend anyone to read very carefully the house rules regarding ownership transfer and subletting.  These are original coops that are extremely intrusive and inflexible.  As I mentioned before, based on the fact that I only sell Coops I can make a general statement based solely on my experience.

Here is a very real example in Corona.  59-21 Calloway st is my exclusive for the last year or so.  When I began helping out a local JH realtor sell the units they also hired my contracting services and increased the spending for renovation from an average of 10k to the current 24k for a 1 bedroom or Jr4.  It is now the most expensive coop building in the area fetching $140 - $150+ for Studios, 217k for a 1 bedroom, $230+ for a JR4 and the last 2 bedroom sale I closed for $315k.  I can duplicate these numbers on any so so area and substantially more if I would be duplicating these services in Jackson Hts.  The product has to be good and if subletting is allowed any savvy Coop buyer will be attracted to these units.  I look forward to chatting with you as well...be well.
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Offline eddiestjohns

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2008, 09:56:12 AM »
I personally will not touch Southridge and the likes with no sublet rules.  They actually have the lowest priced 2 bedroom units I have ever dealt with in the area for comparable units..  I would never bother marketing those units and I would recommend anyone to read very carefully the house rules regarding ownership transfer and subletting.  These are original coops that are extremely intrusive and inflexible.  As I mentioned before, based on the fact that I only sell Coops I can make a general statement based solely on my experience.

Here is a very real example in Corona.  59-21 Calloway st is my exclusive for the last year or so.  When I began helping out a local JH realtor sell the units they also hired my contracting services and increased the spending for renovation from an average of 10k to the current 24k for a 1 bedroom or Jr4.  It is now the most expensive coop building in the area fetching $140 - $150+ for Studios, 217k for a 1 bedroom, $230+ for a JR4 and the last 2 bedroom sale I closed for $315k.  I can duplicate these numbers on any so so area and substantially more if I would be duplicating these services in Jackson Hts.  The product has to be good and if subletting is allowed any savvy Coop buyer will be attracted to these units.  I look forward to chatting with you as well...be well.


I have three friends who live in Southridge and they all like it.  They do have very strict rules but they feel it lends to the high quality of life there.  The buildings tend to be less transient because of the no subletting.  Many original coops in Jackson Heights and other parts of Queens have no subletting rules.  I agree this will hurt resale prices but you will pay less on the way in.  Obviously coops without subletting are not for investors but for people who are making a long term commitment to live there.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2008, 11:39:21 AM »
Also, even the places that do allow subletting have restrictions.  Perhaps the rules might say you must live in the bldg for 18 monhts, and then if you want to sublet you can do it only for a max. of 2 years --and then only with board approval.

You really have to read the rules very carefully.

On the other issue - the restriction on the transfer of shares - that's something I don't know anything about and I should educate myself.

Offline NYC Native

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2008, 07:08:33 PM »
If I was going to buy a a coop in which I plan to stay for a very long time because I may be raising children or say it was my last purchase because I plan to retire there than I would absolutely go for a 100% owner occupied.  Don't misunderstand me please.  Getting to know your neighbor will likely happen more often in a 100% owner occupied building vs others.   There is something quite positive to be said about living in "owner occupied coops". In NYC we don't live in a
homogeneous society and some may not feel comfortable purchasing a property and living in a building or complex that may have a big turn out like a rental building or in a complex with a large percentage of sponsor owned units like the Acropolis in Astoria.  In my personal experience, generally coop Boards will interview and assure that the person moving into the bldg meets a minimum socioeconomic status, unlike most condominiums (I said most, since that is changing as well).
 
The Southride is a good complex for those that wish for 100% owner occupied.  It is in fact an original Coop and they do have the most stringent of bylaws which may not fit a large percentage of buyers,   The fact that most buyers of coops are 1st time buyers and generally younger, we can assume that they will outgrow the apartment and have to either buy a larger unit or a house.  This is when as Shelby mentioned, reading the bylaws are extremely important.  Items like flip taxes, sublet policies, minimum deposits, share transfer or ownership by family members and landmark status can dramatically affect the sale price of the unit.
 
To make a long story even longer...lol, Southridge limits a parent and children ownership and/or transfer of the units to one another or owning in the same building at the same time.  These tactics are typically cooked up to ensure a fair control of shares and prevents the monopolization during the elections of Board of Directors.  I don't recall their bylaws exactly but some of those rules are rarely used other than original Coops.  In fact, I was reading their bylaws at one time for a person that was looking to buy there and I remember some of those bylaws.  I want to say that I will not discourage anyone to buy in original coops, I am simply agreeing that one should make sure that the bylaws are read and make sure you understand what they mean before you sign and commit yourself because they may not meet your immediate or future requirements.. 



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Offline toddg

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 06:00:52 PM »
Here are two articles on the real estate market:

Curbed: Q2 Queens Market Report: Better Than Brooklyn!

Observer: Meanwhile, on Long Island... (includes Queens)

Offline Shelby2

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 11:25:07 PM »
I'm curious about how all these figures should be interpreted.  The curbed report stresses that the average sales price in Queens is down 8.8% from the last quarter.  However, if you look at the same quarter from the previous year, the average sales price in Queens didn't fall at all - it bascially remained exactly the same.

So basically the reason it shows an 8.8% drop in sales price from the last quarter is because there was a spike in the sales price in the last quarter, and it has now declined by approx. the same amount it had spiked - therefore it shows what looks like a big decline in one quarter.

Am I reading these numbers right? The report I clicked on was http://www.prudentialelliman.com/NYCPhotos/retail_reports/li-qu2q08locked.pdf

Somehow given the gloom and doom of the market in general, I don't feel too worried about Queens when I see that the average sales price in Queens remained the same as a year ago. 

I also feel like Queens is a huge place with many factors affecting sales and pricing, and I would really like to see just stats for JH.



Offline toddg

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 11:35:20 PM »
I agree, the numbers are confusing, and almost meaningless.  Another issue is that they're no effort to control for comparables.  We don't know, for example, if last quarter slightly larger apartments sold in pricier neighborhoods, and this quarter slightly smaller apartment sold in cheaper neighborhoods.  If the mix changed like that, "average price" could fall even if prices for comparable apts. in comparable neighborhoods are rising.  Of course, the opposite could be true when these data show prices going up. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the big real estate firms have their own more complex models that provide a more detailed picture of what's going on, and just release these aggregate numbers for public consumption.

Offline eddiestjohns

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2008, 11:02:49 PM »
Todd and Shelby I agree with both of you.  As a financial person who is used to creating or looking at statistics this information doesn't tell you much.  Western Queens real estate has surged in the last few years which was in stark contrast to what happened 15-20 years ago when Eastern Queens real estate was on the upswing and Western Queens on the downswing.  I also think that houses and coops/condos have a market unto themselves and Astoria, LIC, Woodside and Sunnyside may be  a very different market then Richmond Hill, Ozone Park and Jamaica.

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Re: The state of the RE market in Queens
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2008, 11:02:49 PM »