Author Topic: Dishwashers Allowed?  (Read 4349 times)

Offline carrefour_ny

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 682
Dishwashers Allowed?
« on: July 31, 2008, 06:43:48 PM »
I'm wondering if there are many buildings in the neighborhood that have decided, some time in the 1990s, to ban the use of dishwashers or washing machines. Mine has done that, but when I bought my apt in 2003, the previous owner was still using an old washing machine.

So I'm wondering if the argument that old piping is not appropriate for dishwashers/washing machines is actually true. Has that been an issue somewhere?

Do you know of any building around here that has updated their plumbing system to fix that?

I know that there are more than one old buildings in the neighborhood that allow DWs and WMs, and I'm wondering what's different about their piping.

Any thoughts?


Offline cookie

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 72
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 08:53:41 PM »
I'm not a plumber, so I have no idea why the piping would have anything to do with the dishwasher being allowed.  I would think that water would be able to exit from a dishwasher drain just as easy as a sink drain.  I could totally be wrong though.  In my building, you're allowed to have a dishwasher, but you have to pay an additional $10/ month to offset the electricity it is using.  I think this is b.s. too, because the dishwashers are waaaay more efficient than me standing there with hot water running while I do my dishes. 

Offline carrefour_ny

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 682
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 09:16:08 PM »
That's my hunch, too. Did a huge amount of research on DWs and the way they pump water and nothing suggests it is different than just sink draining. Thanks for your reply.

Offline buddy

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1477
    • work
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 10:42:53 PM »
Our building has dishwashers.  No problem.  We do have a no washing machine House Rule though.  It is true that washing machines somehow back up the water into other apartment sinks.  I don't know how or why but I know it's true.  So they're not allowed.
First, do no harm.

Offline Birch-Ed

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 07:33:31 AM »
I don't understand why they are charging you $10 a month for the electricity that the dishwasher uses.  Who pays for the electricity in your building?  You or the building?  I smell a scam.

As for the drainage...the dishwasher drainage is connected to the pipes of your kitchen drain.  It uses the same draining pipes.  As for Washing Machines, unlike dishwashers, hold alot of water and will start to drain all of it at once...that will back up onto other drains

Offline cookie

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 72
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 08:09:32 AM »
I don't understand why they are charging you $10 a month for the electricity that the dishwasher uses.  Who pays for the electricity in your building?  You or the building?  I smell a scam.

As for the drainage...the dishwasher drainage is connected to the pipes of your kitchen drain.  It uses the same draining pipes.  As for Washing Machines, unlike dishwashers, hold alot of water and will start to drain all of it at once...that will back up onto other drains

In my building, utilities such as gas, water, and electric are all wrapped up into our monthly hoa fee.  None of us ever receive a con ed bill.  All of the utilities are shared in the building as none of the apartments are individually metered.  Therefore, in order to offset the extra electricity being used by certain appliances (i.e. dishwasher) you pay an extra fee.  It makes sense, but I'm not sure if it is warranted because appliances are getting more and more efficient as compared to the manual act of washing dishes where you waste a ton of hot water.  We also pay $20/ month to have a window unit a/c, and I'm sure that the one I bought this year has to work about 1/16th as hard as some of the huge old clunkers I see in other windows that have the same btu output.  Sorry, I'm getting a little off topic here, but just wanted to explain.   ;)

Offline spanishfish

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • JH_AB
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 08:20:44 AM »
In addition to the reasons mentioned below, some older buildings electrical systems just can't handle the increased electrical demand required by some of the higher end appliances (such as an electric dryer for example, or a 6 burner electric range). In order to increase the apartment's electrical panel, it sometimes may be required to increase the service from the street; a task that can cost a considerable sum.

We recent renovated an apartment where we had to get confirmation from ConEd that our increased electrical load would not require increased service from them. If it did require it, it may have some several tens of thousands of dollars for the Con Ed work and the schedule would have been delayed significantly.

I do find it odd that dishwashers are not allowed, though. Often times garbage disposals are not allowed, but primarily due to the structure borne sound generated by them (they would annoy the downstairs neighbor to death).
-JH_AB

Offline Birch-Ed

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 08:48:54 AM »
If your electricity is included in your maintenance, then that's a pretty good deal.   My air conditioners which fit in the sleeve are 3 years old, so they are energy efficient.  My electricity in the simmer months goes up $70.  Also many of the new appliances including entertainment devices ( TV's Stereo's ) use up alot of electricity even though they are turned off.   I have an apartment in Florida.  The only things that are running when I'm not there is the air conditioner and the fridge.  I was paying $34 a month.  When I started to unplug every appliance with the exception of the fridge and the AC, my electricity went down to $17 a month.  I was amazed.

So, with your electricity being included in your maintenance, that a good deal!

Offline buddy

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1477
    • work
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 08:57:26 AM »
..........
So I'm wondering if the argument that old piping is not appropriate for dishwashers/washing machines is actually true. Has that been an issue somewhere?

Do you know of any building around here that has updated their plumbing system to fix that?

I know that there are more than one old buildings in the neighborhood that allow DWs and WMs, and I'm wondering what's different about their piping.

Any thoughts?

As far as updated plumbing: most of the buildings do what we do -- fix and update as they break.  It would be so cost prohibitive to do all new plumbing or upgrade electrical all at once.  And since the  newer buildings were built in the 50s (mine) and have plumbing and electrical over 50 years old, I can imagine some of the pre-war buildings are dealing with these issues, too.  My friends in Bayside had extra charges for air conditioners etc.  It seems to be common in buildings that pay the bills for you. 

And having been Board Pres. for a decade, I don't really think it's a rip off.  Even with fuel/energy efficiency there's a drain on the building's systems with all the additional appliances and like I said with things being 50 years old plus, they CONSTANTLY need replacing.

I would think the money is going towards the building and not in someone's pockets.  I wish we had the extra money to update our electrical for the whole building.  Little by little pipes get replaced so that's slowly happening but electrical is another issue.  Look at Con Ed having power outtages.  Solar panels, baby....!

First, do no harm.

Offline cookie

  • Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 72
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 09:41:09 AM »
As far as updated plumbing: most of the buildings do what we do -- fix and update as they break.  It would be so cost prohibitive to do all new plumbing or upgrade electrical all at once.  And since the  newer buildings were built in the 50s (mine) and have plumbing and electrical over 50 years old, I can imagine some of the pre-war buildings are dealing with these issues, too.  My friends in Bayside had extra charges for air conditioners etc.  It seems to be common in buildings that pay the bills for you. 

And having been Board Pres. for a decade, I don't really think it's a rip off.  Even with fuel/energy efficiency there's a drain on the building's systems with all the additional appliances and like I said with things being 50 years old plus, they CONSTANTLY need replacing.

I would think the money is going towards the building and not in someone's pockets.  I wish we had the extra money to update our electrical for the whole building.  Little by little pipes get replaced so that's slowly happening but electrical is another issue.  Look at Con Ed having power outtages.  Solar panels, baby....!


Lol, I was just talking the other day with someone that we should put solar panels on the roof.  I don't think they're very efficient for the cost, though.  It's a nice pipe dream. 

Having the utilities in the maintnance is a good deal.  It is consistent from month to month (even though it just went up for this year!)  Overall it is good, and I don't think we're padding anyone's pockets.  I am sure though, that there are people in the building who leave on too many lights, tv's, and all kinds of electrical items while they're not even there.  When I moved in, the guy had an original refrigerator from 1957 in that place.  I'm sure there are many more like it, and they're sucking electricity like nobody's business. 

Offline buddy

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1477
    • work
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 10:17:02 AM »
You'd hate me.  I'm an electricity sucker myself.  Growing up, I'd walk thru the house turning on lights in each room.  My brother would walk behind me, turning them off!  Now instead of lights I keep my ceiling fans on in each room. 

Sucking electricity.... that's me!


 :2funny:
First, do no harm.

Offline John Prester

  • Activist
  • *****
  • Posts: 189
  • El Juan Preste - Emperador De Los Absinios
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2008, 11:27:01 AM »
Al Gore doesn't like people who leave lights on!!!!

Disco Dandy and Flâneur Extraordinaire

Offline buddy

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1477
    • work
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2008, 02:08:52 AM »
Al Gore doesn't like people who leave lights on!!!!


Yeah, well I still haven't forgiven him for blowing the election. Now he's a mamaluke!
First, do no harm.

Offline studio

  • Tourist
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 01:09:08 AM »
Many of the European washers have a much lower flow rate when dumping the water out, since putting a washer dryer in the kitchen is pretty typical. The downside is that these brands (bosch, asko etc.) are on the pricey side. Most american made washers rely on having separate plumbing so the draining is faster, and likely to cause backflow on sinks...

Offline jeanette

  • Mayor
  • *******
  • Posts: 1082
Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 11:35:28 PM »
I've heard about a tabletop washing machine (WalMart), I presume made for laundering delicates rather than by hand, and a spin dryer (no heat). Does anyone know anything about these machines, and whether I'd still have the same problems as if I had a conventional washer/dryer set up in the apartment?

Do you think the European models is what I may - unknowingly - be referring to?

Thanks.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Dishwashers Allowed?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 11:35:28 PM »