Author Topic: Former Nazi guard living in JH  (Read 7626 times)

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2018, 06:39:07 PM »
Sounds like a witch hunt to me.

Offline dssjh

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Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2018, 06:47:07 PM »
witch hunt doesn't end until the last splash.

Offline dssjh

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Online JH3525

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Jakiw Palij - Nazi Prison Guard
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2019, 08:26:16 PM »
The Daily News has reported that the Nazi Prison Guard from Jackson Heights who was deported to Germany has died at the age of 95 at a Nursing Home in Germany. 

Offline dssjh

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Re: Jakiw Palij - Nazi Prison Guard
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2019, 09:05:40 PM »
may his memory be a curse.

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 12:29:32 PM »
It's great that we have words like Nazi so that we can have a clear conscience when we decide to not treat someone like a human being. 

Offline dssjh

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 12:59:33 PM »
we have a word like Nazi to stuff into the cold dead throat of a Nazi who worked at a Nazi concentation camp and murdered, raped and incinerated people for his Nazi beliefs and died alone and unloved in a Nazi bed.

you've been upset on one or two other threads over the use of the word Nazi.

that's intriguing.

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 02:22:23 PM »
What's intriguing is that some people are easily willing to dehumanize someone, to the point of spouting absolute hateful and violent vitriol, simply by the association of a single word.  Apparently we learned nothing from the evil deeds of actual Nazis.

You can levy any kind of lame insinuation against me that you want, but I'm not going to jump on your reactionary bandwagon simply because you've used a scary word.

I for one would be interested to hear this man's actual story before condemning him in the court of public opinion.  But noone is asking him his story, and now it's too late.  That might be a good thing in your mind, but I am interested in what factors drove this person in his path in life.  One thing is for certain, he wasn't Hitler nor Himmler, and generally shouldn't be destroyed by association.  There were plenty of Nazi party members that absolutely did far worse than this man that were pardoned afterward (both legally and socially).  Some even worked for our government.

I don't like mob mentality, or rush to judgement.  And I don't like the substitution of critical thought with labels and symbols.

Offline carrefour_ny

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 02:42:33 PM »
@chingwa: what are you talking about "condemning him in the court of public opinion" and "understanding the factors that drove him to it"?

The first is the wrong question to ask as there is tons of actual evidence -- not "opinions" (read the background, here, for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/nazi-queens-deported.html)

 -- and the second -- no "path of life" is an excuse for participating in genocide; the Nurenberg trials demonstrated that we have a moral responsibility for our actions. See for instance Hannah Arendt's study of Eichmann's trial, or the Banality of Evil, or really, any other study.

So yeah this would be an appropriate moment to judge him "by association" and to be scared.

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2019, 03:24:26 PM »
@carrefour_ny thank you for the article.  It doesn't really give proper details on what he was convicted of doing, other than being condemned by association though.  His obituary on the Washington Post gives more details about his life but also doesn't say he actually committed any war crimes.  In fact the only stated crime that I can see is that he lied on his immigration papers.

His story sounds rather tragic in all honesty, with his country being invaded by the USSR, then invaded by the Germans who posed as "liberators", then being recruited into Nazi service (which, let's not be naive, likely was forced recruitment).  WP says he was assigned to an adjacent labor camp from Trawniki...  so maybe his actions as a guard led to people being murdered... maybe he murdered people himself, or maybe he didn't.  We'll never know.  We can get the personal story of Charles Manson, but not this 95 year old Nazi, eh?

We have a responsibility to look at history with a nuanced eye.

Offline jeanette

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 04:23:00 PM »
We have a responsibility to look at history with a nuanced eye.

Not in this (binary) climate.

Offline carrefour_ny

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2019, 04:43:39 PM »
Chingwa. I appreciate your willingness to be nuanced and to give the benefit of the doubt, but your view is uninformed. The "victim" story is one used by thousands of Nazis who tried to cast themselves as victims. They've largely been disproved. This is not the story of a victim of geopolitics, who has unfairly been victimized again at the end of his life. Ask me --  I have a PhD on this. And this is not the climate for moral fuzziness.

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2019, 05:43:02 PM »
Thanks Carrefour_ny, I concede that I have only a minor interest in this subject and am certainly not as informed as someone who has studied in depth.  I also understand that many would lie and cast themselves as victims, of course they would.  However each case should be judged by the actual facts if we are to maintain a moral authority as a society, and I haven't seen the facts of this case to be worth the mass condemnation.  I'm sure you have more in depth info about this specific case than what is penned across current news articles.

I strongly disagree however that the current(or any) political climate has any bearing on how we treat these issues.  That is a tendency toward mob and reactionary rule that does not lend itself toward just examination.

Offline sps

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2019, 09:57:44 PM »
> It's great that we have words like Nazi so that we can have a clear conscience when we decide to not treat someone like a human being.

We have words like "Nazi" to refer to people that worked in factories that were created for the purpose of killing people based on their ethnicity, like the one were Palij worked, where just under a million people killed.

Offline Chingwa

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Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:32 AM »
Yeah sure, that is the common definition.  However there were plenty of normal people in the Nazi party that were not evil maniacs, believe it or not.  In our rush to condemn we also obliterate important perspective on history and human nature.  But noone is interested in that in the age of outrage.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:32 AM »