Author Topic: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA  (Read 744 times)

Offline doesitreallymatter

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Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« on: October 08, 2020, 05:43:50 PM »
I am anti-congestion pricing and anti-bike lanes. We are slicing and dicing our network of streets at great expense to everyone. We literally just reduced Northern Boulevard from 3 lanes to 2 to get into Manhattan. This is insane. Shame on the DOT to allow this. However, I feel that with the growing financial challenges NYC is going to face, congestion pricing is inevitable. Congestion pricing places an unfair amount of burden on small businesses and I do NOT stand for it.  If we "need" this revenue so badly for the MTA then we should also start thinking about other revenue streams such as:

1. Don't turn on heat in subway cars (or keep it at bare minimum temperature), will also help discourage homeless to sleep in cars. We can't afford to have entire cars vacant except for one person this winter. You all know what I mean.

2. Start charging for street parking for regular cars overnight and/or during the day. Make the meters up to 12 or 16 hours long, but let's stop giving away our streets for free.

3. Charge bicycles (and all wheeled vehicles used as mode of transportation) to register in NYC for better identification tags or some kind of "plate" that attaches to the bike. That way it is easier to fine them when they run red lights and break NYC traffic laws.

4. Charge more tickets to bicyclists who break traffic laws.





Offline dssjh

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2020, 06:26:26 PM »
i am pro-congestion pricing and pro-bike lanes (full disclosure: i do not drive and do not ride a bike on the streets, ever).

we need to eliminate the free ride for street parking. my taxes pay for that space, and there is no reason for anyone else to use it for free.

increase fines for both motor and bike moving violations.

and take it from there.

Offline itsit

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 08:09:41 PM »
   I like thinking about how we need to change our behaviour and thank you for opening the topic up for debate. Congestion pricing is a topic to explore. Bikes need to have more accountability if they are to get special roadways and treatments too. As a car owner (and a cyclist), I would feel that it's my fair share to pay more for both, especially in the case of the city going broke. The parking overnight fees might have to be phased in to be fair to some families as there are areas even in Queens that are incredibly difficult to travel to in a timely fashion without a vehicle. We use the car sometimes for work and sometimes for family visits and sometimes just a recreational thing. With previous work, it would have been impossible to complete the day in less than 12 hours without a vehicle.

  The electric bikes are so dangerous in the bike lanes am not sure how many injuries or worse will happen soon with them gaining popularity. Something needs to happen there but again, phase in so no one is ambushed with fees here that they can't afford. Citibikes at each end of the neighborhood would be welcome. Or near the subway or the Canelles shopping center.

 What about permit parking? And charging sometime for that like in Cambridge Mass. and other places near bigger cities? Just from the license plate frames, we are a popular place for people from Manhasset to park while they work here or take the subway which uses some parking spots. Love a good debate though...

Offline JHHD

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 09:36:10 PM »

"I am anti-congestion pricing and anti-bike lanes."

So Manhattan should be gridlocked with vehicles, and Jackson Heights should be choked with those vehicles driving into a small dense area with many mass transit options. And people who ride 30 lb bicycles should be forced to share lanes with 3,000lbs vehicles driven by people who are so disrespectful and inconsiderate that they honk madly just to express their displeasure with their driving situation.

Congestion pricing places an unfair burden on small businesses?? Please explain. This should be a good one.

"We are slicing and dicing our network of streets at great expense to everyone."
Newsflash, people who drive cars are not "everyone".

I like your first suggestion to turn off the heat in subway cars. What do you care, you will be nice and warm honking your horn like a jerk because you think the rest of the world revolves around you. Your suggestion reveals a lot about your character.

Look around our city, it's pretty much a motorist free for all. But yeah, we should go after those bikes *shakes fist*.
You remind me of this guy, who I'm pretty sure is also against bike lanes and congestion pricing.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/10/05/unmasked-crescent-street-spitter-is-a-repeat-reckless-driver-and-violent-offender/

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2020, 09:15:35 AM »
Alternate modes of transport to cars...like bikes, ebikes etc are the future.

Folks who rode wagons pulled by horses were probably also anti-sharing the roads with new
-fangled horseless carriages in 1903.

Perhaps in the future...100 years...cars will also be limited to joyrides around Central Park...just like horse and carriages are today.


Offline doesitreallymatter

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2020, 10:46:36 AM »
I agree with you and yes, both motor and bike moving violations need to be held equally accountable.

i am pro-congestion pricing and pro-bike lanes (full disclosure: i do not drive and do not ride a bike on the streets, ever).

we need to eliminate the free ride for street parking. my taxes pay for that space, and there is no reason for anyone else to use it for free.

increase fines for both motor and bike moving violations.

and take it from there.

Offline doesitreallymatter

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2020, 11:12:46 AM »
JHHD. I am happy to engage in a discussion about these things. I am disinclined to weigh in on your character or to respond to your incorrect character evaluation. You know nothing about me and I know nothing about you. I do not spit on people, I do not drive a vehicle in bike lanes and I am not disrespectful. On the contrary, I use all modes of transportation from subway regularly, to occasional biking and occasional driving. I understand the needs of all of these modes of transportation and am paying attention to the realities of what I see happening across this city.

The reality is that when I drive, the worst driving offenses I have seen that came close to causing accidents are by reckless bicyclists who change lanes with no warning, dodge traffic, cut off without having a right of way, run red lights and have general disrespect for motorists. This is based on 13 years of experience driving in and around the city. I have noticed that whenever there is an accident or issue with a bicyclist, the default is to assume they were in the right and motorists are in the wrong. I see this tone reflected in your comments as well and I disagree with this mentality.

The reality is that Manhattan will be gridlocked regardless of congestion pricing. Traffic will not be reduced because of these additional tolls. Congestion pricing places an unfair burden on small businesses who must deliver goods and services across this city. There is a breaking point for how much small businesses can eat additional tolls as cost of doing business vs. doing business at all. Small businesses DO NOT have a choice in driving to deliver their goods and services. Passengers have a choice in taking an uber or a taxi. It's not the same thing. Personal vehicles have a choice in taking a car vs. public transportation. The city is taking advantage of small businesses in this respect, the same way that they make commercial plates pay higher fees for Muni Meters and many other ways.

Our network of streets does in fact affect every single person. Grocery stores must be stocked. Plumbers must be able to respond to emergency leaks, firefighters and ambulances must be able to pass. The fact is, looking at Northern boulevard, there are tractor trailer trucks delivering cars to auto dealers with frequent regularity. Now that one lane has been dedicated to a bicycle lane, if there is a delivery blocking one lane of traffic, we have effectively turned northern boulevard into a single lane street. This has happened over and over again across our city. Bridges turning from 3 lanes now to one single lane.

Look at the effect that shutting down 34th Avenue has had on 35th Avenue traffic. For the record, I think 34th Ave pedestrian street is great and valuable addition to our neighborhood. But the amount of double parking on 35th Avenue has become burdensome and difficult to navigate. It is an unsafe situation. Everything has a cause and effect. The addition of bike lanes in NYC has had many positive effects, but also many negative effects on the city that bike supporters are unwilling to hear or recognize. I do feel it is excessive to have bike lanes on 34th avenue, northern boulevard and 32nd avenue. Will we add bike lanes to every single street in NYC? We need to be smarter about the big picture and long term effect of our street patterns. Right now it feels like a free for all that rewards the people who shout the loudest.

I reiterate that I use the subway to commute into the city, but again, there is no need for a character evaluation that you know nothing about. Everyone may express their opinions without it turning into a personal attack as you have done, this is not the way to engage.






"I am anti-congestion pricing and anti-bike lanes."

So Manhattan should be gridlocked with vehicles, and Jackson Heights should be choked with those vehicles driving into a small dense area with many mass transit options. And people who ride 30 lb bicycles should be forced to share lanes with 3,000lbs vehicles driven by people who are so disrespectful and inconsiderate that they honk madly just to express their displeasure with their driving situation.

Congestion pricing places an unfair burden on small businesses?? Please explain. This should be a good one.

"We are slicing and dicing our network of streets at great expense to everyone."
Newsflash, people who drive cars are not "everyone".

I like your first suggestion to turn off the heat in subway cars. What do you care, you will be nice and warm honking your horn like a jerk because you think the rest of the world revolves around you. Your suggestion reveals a lot about your character.

Look around our city, it's pretty much a motorist free for all. But yeah, we should go after those bikes *shakes fist*.
You remind me of this guy, who I'm pretty sure is also against bike lanes and congestion pricing.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/10/05/unmasked-crescent-street-spitter-is-a-repeat-reckless-driver-and-violent-offender/


Offline JHResident

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2020, 07:31:41 PM »
my taxes pay for that space, and there is no reason for anyone else to use it for free.
Streets are paid for by registration fees and tolls and gas taxes, so if you don't drive, I don't think your taxes are involved.  Streets are for cars, sidewalks are for pedestrians, and no one ever conceived of any other means of transportation when the city was 'planned'.  Rather than do things seemingly randomly like our mayor has done, it's time to figure out where we want our city to be in 50 years and start from scratch to achieve it.  All the suggestions made have value, but someone has to pay for it. Are you willing to pay double your current city income and real estate taxes to pay for all the infrastructure changes that really need to be made?

Offline dssjh

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2020, 10:25:07 AM »
there's an adage in fast moving sports -- "go to where the ball is going, not where the ball is now." if we're thinking about planning 50 years down the line, we need to plan for more bikes, more varieties of public and/or shared transportation and fewer single-owner cars. that's inevitable.

as far as payment, you make an interesting pivot, saying that roads are entirely paid for by "registration fees and tolls and gas taxes... if you don't drive, I don't think your taxes are involved," then asking "Are you willing to pay double your current city income and real estate taxes?" which is it?

Offline itsit

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2020, 11:36:36 AM »
 Reviving the trolley line on Northern Blvd from the 50's? would be great. I rode electric trolleys in Salt Lake City and in some African cities and they were quiet and cheap. It would be a great way to replace the Q66 bus line, some of which replaced the previous trolley. The depot still exists up by the Sports Authority in the Michaels shopping center.

Offline Shallot

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2020, 01:03:02 PM »
In the US, the cost of roads is covered by revenue from various sources - gasoline taxes, license taxes, road fees/tolls, general taxes (income taxes, sales taxes), etc.  While the particulars vary by state https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ , my read of the data says that in NY State "user taxes" (what drivers pay) only covers ~65% of the cost of roads.

The decades-long trend https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2015/10/28/who-pays-for-roads-addressing-the-users-pay-myth has been for more and more of those costs to be borne by all taxpayers, not just by drivers.

Offline JHResident

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2020, 01:16:37 PM »
there's an adage in fast moving sports -- "go to where the ball is going, not where the ball is now." if we're thinking about planning 50 years down the line, we need to plan for more bikes, more varieties of public and/or shared transportation and fewer single-owner cars. that's inevitable.

as far as payment, you make an interesting pivot, saying that roads are entirely paid for by "registration fees and tolls and gas taxes... if you don't drive, I don't think your taxes are involved," then asking "Are you willing to pay double your current city income and real estate taxes?" which is it?
If there are fewer cars and less gas purchased, drivers will generate less revenue. Something has to compensate. That means your taxes, most likely.

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2020, 02:18:50 PM »
Reviving the trolley line on Northern Blvd from the 50's? would be great. I rode electric trolleys in Salt Lake City and in some African cities and they were quiet and cheap. It would be a great way to replace the Q66 bus line, some of which replaced the previous trolley. The depot still exists up by the Sports Authority in the Michaels shopping center.

Great idea. There could also be trolley cars along Queens Bld etc, etc.

Bringing the whole trolley car system back would be awesome.

It's time to admit a huge mistake was made in the 1930's to 1950's replacing NY's trolley car system with buses and private cars. Now that was a true example of corporate greed by automobile (and allied) industries. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 02:30:42 PM by abcdefghijk »

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2020, 02:39:17 PM »
Reviving the trolley line on Northern Blvd from the 50's? would be great. I rode electric trolleys in Salt Lake City and in some African cities and they were quiet and cheap. It would be a great way to replace the Q66 bus line, some of which replaced the previous trolley. The depot still exists up by the Sports Authority in the Michaels shopping center.

Great idea. There could also be trolley cars along Queens Bld etc, etc.

Bringing the whole trolley car system back would be awesome.

It's time to admit a huge mistake was made in the 1930's to 1950's replacing NY's trolley car system with buses and private cars. Now that was a true example of corporate greed by automobile (and allied) industries.

*Also trolleys would be perfect for the new electric vehicle technology.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Ways for NYC to Balance Deficit and help MTA
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2020, 02:39:17 PM »