Author Topic: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)  (Read 8474 times)

Online dssjh

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2020, 10:32:21 PM »
i wouldn't say that the purchase price of a car is prohibitive, but the upkeep, between parking and insurance, is a pretty hefty chunk of change -- particularly in a very depressed economy.

Offline r

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2020, 11:16:25 PM »
I think the state of the economy means we should be trying to encourage residents to stay instead of moving out of the city or out of the state. I don't know whether permanently closing 34th Ave is a good idea or a bad idea overall, but there needs to be some analysis and community feedback, which didn't appear to happen for the initial closure.

The cost of having more open space / green space has to be paid by someone and at the moment it is being paid by anyone who has a car. Instead now might be a good time to acquire some land from businesses which no longer make financial sense to operate in the "new world", and turn that into a park.

Offline theplanesland

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2020, 09:09:06 AM »
The 34th Avenue Open Street does not reduce the parking in the neighborhood - every parking space remains. It does not reduce the ability of people who live on 34th Avenue to access their blocks or stop directly in front of their buildings. Everyone can still do so. There is no reduction of use for car owners living on 34th Avenue. Anyone who lives on one of those blocks can turn onto it slowly, park or load, and turn off. In fact, the open street makes those spaces MORE likely to be used by local residents by preventing people from outside the neighborhood from using 34th Avenue for cruising.

Car owners on 34th Avenue are completely protected by the current plan.

The only thing it does it prevent people from using 34th Avenue as a *through route.* I live just off 35th, and I have not seen 35th gridlocked yet at any point this summer. We do not need 34th as a through route. It is much more valuable to have it as open space for the many people in the neighborhood who cannot access city parks because they're trying not to get COVID on the train. The traffic does not currently exist to justify 34th as a through route. If 35th is crowded to the point of unusability, let's revisit the issue, but not before then.

Offline r

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2020, 09:21:22 AM »
35th is regularly gridlocked now and it will only get worse as the economy continues to open up. I literally got out of a Lyft and walked along 35th last week because cars were not moving at all. That had never happened before.

Offline JHResident

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2020, 09:24:51 AM »
The 34th Avenue Open Street does not reduce the parking in the neighborhood - every parking space remains. It does not reduce the ability of people who live on 34th Avenue to access their blocks or stop directly in front of their buildings. Everyone can still do so. There is no reduction of use for car owners living on 34th Avenue. Anyone who lives on one of those blocks can turn onto it slowly, park or load, and turn off. In fact, the open street makes those spaces MORE likely to be used by local residents by preventing people from outside the neighborhood from using 34th Avenue for cruising.

Car owners on 34th Avenue are completely protected by the current plan.

The only thing it does it prevent people from using 34th Avenue as a *through route.* I live just off 35th, and I have not seen 35th gridlocked yet at any point this summer. We do not need 34th as a through route. It is much more valuable to have it as open space for the many people in the neighborhood who cannot access city parks because they're trying not to get COVID on the train. The traffic does not currently exist to justify 34th as a through route. If 35th is crowded to the point of unusability, let's revisit the issue, but not before then.
Some very good points. Drivers can use 34th Ave as long as someone leaves the barricades open enough to pass through slowly. Parking is plentiful during the day. Pedestrians may throw things at you and call you vile names, but it's not as bad as I feared it would be.
But 35th Ave has become impassable at times, particularly between 74th St and Leverich St. With all the double parked cars near 73rd St, buses turning, Amazon, UPS and ConEd vans double parked everywhere, you might have to wait a few red lights to pass 4 or 5 blocks at a time. Get someone to clean up the double parking and I think leaving 34th Ave closed during the day might be sustainable.

Offline Beech Court

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2020, 06:37:52 PM »


Are folks really going to choose cars over kids?

These people's priorities and values need to be  re-set.

Quality of life and safety issues are not only about kids.

Why do I often feel that people here love to wave the kid flag? JH isn't Disney nor should it become that. If young families don't feel this place is kid friendly enough why are they here? They knew, or should have known what neighborhood they moved into.

Maybe Jackson Heights didn't used to have a big kid population decades and decades ago.

It certainly does now. And in a democracy, numbers matter...

Young families have changed the neighborhood.

It's no longer ok to not be kid friendly. As perhaps in a previous era.

Perhaps you misunderstood or came to a hasty conclusion. Did I touch on a sensitive nerve?
I am in no way opposed to children or people having them. In fact that was never the case in JH at all. I did try to point out however that children do not rule this neighborhood. And yes to be truly democratic as you say means to consider that there are other needs here besides children only!

If you know the the history of JH you would acknowledge that the original marketing strategy to bringing people here was geared at Manhattan families. JH was said to be a planned community with trees, open air and recreation space where children could get out of the stifling city. A place where people could raise families, in a more gentle environment. That also meant having our commercial zone as well as our less trafficked quiet zone.

The ends of the side streets were open gardens, not built upon. On 34th and & 35th Avenues there were grassy malls with benches running up the middle. The golf course was also here then providing plenty of open space for all and included a colonial era farm house that was called "The Casino" which served as a meeting place and club house. Travers Park is the last remaining vestige of the golf course that was never built on. There were also the private gardens behind groups of buildings which still exist today. The boards that govern those private gardens have strict rules these days that barely allow for anything but looking. The problem was the housing shortage after WW2 and the end blocks, malls, and gold course all began to disappear. As a side note, even today the children's playground within Travers is placed at the Northern Blvd. end of the park, not right on 34th Ave. Is this also to be considered non kid friendly?

We also had our own small hospital in which many of JH's second generation were born. More Kids! And it really is too bad that the place couldn't have had its problems resolved and remained a hospital. it might have been an asset during this pandemic. Too many Queens hospitals were shut down and we were left at the mercy of the overburdened Elmhurst General. And what happened to our hospital and it's generous sized parking lot? A public school.... but we don't like kids here?

I said this neighborhood is not Disney nor should it be. It is also not a Club Med for singles or a Billyburgh for Hipsters. It is a wonderful well planned place with all kinds of people with all kinds of needs ALL of which need to be considered. THAT is the democratic way. Add to this our original planned "Garden Within the City" has been compromised over the years and there is only so much that can be done at this point for ALL who live here.
I also channel Gladys Gilbert!

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2020, 10:32:35 AM »


Are folks really going to choose cars over kids?

These people's priorities and values need to be  re-set.

Quality of life and safety issues are not only about kids.

Why do I often feel that people here love to wave the kid flag? JH isn't Disney nor should it become that. If young families don't feel this place is kid friendly enough why are they here? They knew, or should have known what neighborhood they moved into.

Maybe Jackson Heights didn't used to have a big kid population decades and decades ago.

It certainly does now. And in a democracy, numbers matter...

Young families have changed the neighborhood.

It's no longer ok to not be kid friendly. As perhaps in a previous era.

Perhaps you misunderstood or came to a hasty conclusion. Did I touch on a sensitive nerve?
I am in no way opposed to children or people having them. In fact that was never the case in JH at all. I did try to point out however that children do not rule this neighborhood. And yes to be truly democratic as you say means to consider that there are other needs here besides children only!

If you know the the history of JH you would acknowledge that the original marketing strategy to bringing people here was geared at Manhattan families. JH was said to be a planned community with trees, open air and recreation space where children could get out of the stifling city. A place where people could raise families, in a more gentle environment. That also meant having our commercial zone as well as our less trafficked quiet zone.

The ends of the side streets were open gardens, not built upon. On 34th and & 35th Avenues there were grassy malls with benches running up the middle. The golf course was also here then providing plenty of open space for all and included a colonial era farm house that was called "The Casino" which served as a meeting place and club house. Travers Park is the last remaining vestige of the golf course that was never built on. There were also the private gardens behind groups of buildings which still exist today. The boards that govern those private gardens have strict rules these days that barely allow for anything but looking. The problem was the housing shortage after WW2 and the end blocks, malls, and gold course all began to disappear. As a side note, even today the children's playground within Travers is placed at the Northern Blvd. end of the park, not right on 34th Ave. Is this also to be considered non kid friendly?

We also had our own small hospital in which many of JH's second generation were born. More Kids! And it really is too bad that the place couldn't have had its problems resolved and remained a hospital. it might have been an asset during this pandemic. Too many Queens hospitals were shut down and we were left at the mercy of the overburdened Elmhurst General. And what happened to our hospital and it's generous sized parking lot? A public school.... but we don't like kids here?

I said this neighborhood is not Disney nor should it be. It is also not a Club Med for singles or a Billyburgh for Hipsters. It is a wonderful well planned place with all kinds of people with all kinds of needs ALL of which need to be considered. THAT is the democratic way. Add to this our original planned "Garden Within the City" has been compromised over the years and there is only so much that can be done at this point for ALL who live here.

Yes, I have read Daniel Karatzas' book  JACKSON HEIGHTS : A GARDEN IN A CITY.
Thank you for the summary of JH's past. I already knew all this.

Back to today.

The point is that the kids are utilizing 34th Ave as a summer camp type situation.

And a person would be mean-spirited indeed to prioritize their car needs over kids.



 

Offline Beech Court

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2020, 01:47:14 PM »
Summer camp needs are not the same as permanent shut down of the Avenue.
Depending on the needs of the Summer camp Travers has space including 78th already permanently shut. If that isn't sufficient then there is an opening for dialogue. But traffic still needs to flow, cars need parking spaces and deliveries need to be made. That is not mean spirited, it's logical and practical.
I also channel Gladys Gilbert!

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2020, 03:47:34 PM »
Summer camp needs are not the same as permanent shut down of the Avenue.
Depending on the needs of the Summer camp Travers has space including 78th already permanently shut. If that isn't sufficient then there is an opening for dialogue. But traffic still needs to flow, cars need parking spaces and deliveries need to be made. That is not mean spirited, it's logical and practical.

Since 34th Ave is split into two roads by the planted median...the answer might be a compromise.
As you say...we are a democracy.

One side of the planted median for cars.  And the other side for kids and pedestrians.

Now that's scrupulously fair.


Offline itsit

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2020, 04:55:22 PM »
 As someone who is outside and on 34th Ave a lot, there isn't enough need to keep the street closed permanently. There are a number of times a day now where the use level is low. Low enough that just using the sidewalk would be adequate for exercise. When the gyms reopen, the schools reopen, the parks that are currently under construction in Travers and on 61st in Woodside and St Marks Church gardens, there will be many more places to exercise. It's funny to me that the only people who seem to be left out the conversation are those it might impact the most. I have seen a number of seniors, medical staff, delivery people and other residents mightily inconvenienced by the closing.
 
 It's one thing if its in the highly contagious time of Covid19 transmission but now that things have subsided - not gone yet- it feels like the street need not be closed as much. Certainly weekends could be an asset to the JH community for getting outdoors on those days when most of us have more free time but the rest of the time, it will be a waste of a resource for those needing to use the streets and who may be using cars, not bikes, to do the jobs, activities and errands our families need.

Offline Beech Court

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2020, 05:08:21 PM »
Thank you itsit for a very sensible response.
abcdefghijk seems to have an axe to grind, calling for democracy, while putting their own agenda ahead of everyone else.
I also channel Gladys Gilbert!

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2020, 05:48:49 PM »
Thank you itsit for a very sensible response.
abcdefghijk seems to have an axe to grind, calling for democracy, while putting their own agenda ahead of everyone else.

I see you are not happy with being scrupulously fair. Grinding your own axe perhaps?

Offline Beech Court

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2020, 05:59:11 PM »
Thank you itsit for a very sensible response.
abcdefghijk seems to have an axe to grind, calling for democracy, while putting their own agenda ahead of everyone else.

I see you are not happy with being scrupulously fair. Grinding your own axe perhaps?

"Fair" is in your estimation only. Really I think you just enjoy the sparring. Tell me, if I had to hear this in person would you be also whining?  ;D
I also channel Gladys Gilbert!

Offline Shelby2

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2020, 06:36:55 PM »
As someone who is outside and on 34th Ave a lot, there isn't enough need to keep the street closed permanently. There are a number of times a day now where the use level is low. Low enough that just using the sidewalk would be adequate for exercise. When the gyms reopen, the schools reopen, the parks that are currently under construction in Travers and on 61st in Woodside and St Marks Church gardens, there will be many more places to exercise. It's funny to me that the only people who seem to be left out the conversation are those it might impact the most. I have seen a number of seniors, medical staff, delivery people and other residents mightily inconvenienced by the closing.
 
 It's one thing if its in the highly contagious time of Covid19 transmission but now that things have subsided - not gone yet- it feels like the street need not be closed as much. Certainly weekends could be an asset to the JH community for getting outdoors on those days when most of us have more free time but the rest of the time, it will be a waste of a resource for those needing to use the streets and who may be using cars, not bikes, to do the jobs, activities and errands our families need.

I agree with your take on this.

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2020, 08:45:47 PM »
Thank you itsit for a very sensible response.
abcdefghijk seems to have an axe to grind, calling for democracy, while putting their own agenda ahead of everyone else.

I see you are not happy with being scrupulously fair. Grinding your own axe perhaps?


"Fair" is in your estimation only. Really I think you just enjoy the sparring. Tell me, if I had to hear this in person would you be also whining?  ;D

I would be speaking in mellifluous tones. As always.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: 34th Avenue street closure permanently (NOT)
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2020, 08:45:47 PM »