Author Topic: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing  (Read 8891 times)

Offline gente

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2020, 11:36:50 PM »
It's simple. Stay home.
If you don't stay home, keep a safe distance away from anyone with whom you don't share living space.
If you have to come into close proximity with someone, cover your face.
Why is this so hard for people to follow?

This really is the bottom line, word for word. For the life of me I will never understand why these very simple guidelines are so difficult for people to *temporarily* stick to. Tiny personal cost, massive social benefit.

Offline gente

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2020, 11:55:49 PM »
I'm for erring on the side of caution, even if that means restriction of freedoms.

I'm with you all the way. Except for the framing. I see the caution not as a restriction of freedom, but as the protection of freedom. Small personal adjustments protect the freedom (read: health and life, rather than illness or death) of our neighbors. A neighborhood with spreading illness and death leads not to personal freedom, but restriction. Taking simple personal precautions protects both my neighbors' freedom and mine.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2020, 06:03:44 AM »
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no one said not to wear a mask when you're alone and away from others, and have control over that circumstance.

Actually, I did. If you are comfortable with that. Some people have heightened anxiety, and they should keep their masks on if it makes them feel better. Of course what you mean is no one has said wear a mask when you're alone and away from others, but that's exactly what has been posted above. Wearing a face covering at all times when outside includes when you are outside, alone, and away from others

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the bottom line is 34th street, unless you're out at 3PM (sic), is an area designated for people to be out and walking.

So are sidewalks and parks. And let's keep in mind "out" for some people who aren't able to walk a lot means standing in place, sitting, and moving pretty slowly. They should be able to enjoy the outdoors just as much as the able bodied. Families should be able to let their kids learn how to ride a bike, draw with chalk, and play hopscotch in place.

I've been trying to post photos from yesterday at noon on 34th Avenue where there are hardly any people on the street. I've been unsuccessful at getting the file size small enough. (??) The perception that it's always chock-a-block just isn't reality. It definitely is heavily trafficked at some times of day, I agree, and that's why I think people like me who are able bodied, don't have kids with them, and out for physical activity would be wise to walk along the residential streets in less densely populated areas during those times.

The bottom line really is, know what the rules are, which are that people only have to cover their faces outside when they can't keep a safe distance from others. (I get it, 6 feet isn't a certainty for safety. But we have to pick a number and 6 it is. We pick numbers all the time as a society you can argue over, like age of consent, a speed limit, etc.) The other bottom line is that people are clearly garbage at judging what 6 feet looks like, and other people don't care about wearing the mask. We should control what we can control, which is ourselves.

I'm not insensitive to the fear. I lost someone, and I was ill. I was very scared to venture outdoors for a bit -- out of fear that even though I followed the quarantine guidelines, the recommendations have been wrong in the past so what if they were wrong about the timeline and I was still infectious? So I erred on the side of caution and quarantined longer than the recommendation from the CDC.

Offline francis

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2020, 02:43:46 PM »
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza. Up to 80% of test positive persons remain symptom free. The mortality rate in the US, UK, and Sweden are the same as a strong influenza season. If you wear a mask, chances are  you reduce your "herd" immunity.  There is no scientific evidence that mask are effective for healthy asymptomatic persons and that wearing a mask may interfere with normal respiration.  The report list about 30 points regarding COVID.  I especially am concerned when I see small children wearing mask and wonder how much damage is being done only form a health perspective but from a developmental point of view.  Facial expressions are a critical part of language learning and development.  A smile from a stranger, a grimace, a  frown, a look of anticipation...I can go on..... all carry meaning. Children growing up without seeing the faces of those around them are sure to suffer the most regarding their ability to perceive nuanced  information.

Offline Benoit

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2020, 02:49:17 PM »
I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of Fauci’s mouth. He’s a holdover from the Obama administration.  I never wear a mask, except when required by a private business.

Offline dssjh

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2020, 03:20:53 PM »
He's actually a holdover from the Reagan administration. but i know the former Republican Party has disavowed Reagan because he was such a raging leftist. not a conservative like Clinton donor Dementia Donny.

Offline dssjh

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2020, 03:29:57 PM »
it is good to see people outing themselves as mask-eschewers, though. since 95 percent of the people i see on an average day are masked, it's a little like caller ID :)

Offline 7

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2020, 03:36:16 PM »
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza.

Based on 237+ deaths in Jackson Heights (11372) so far and a population of around 66,000, we already have a 0.35% lethality rate, if you assume 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected.

But it's unlikely that 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected. If only 20% has been infected (the NYC average antibody rate) then the lethality rate in Jackson Heights is more like 1.75%.

The real answer is probably somewhere in between, maybe 1% lethality rate. But 0.1% is clearly wrong.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2020, 05:27:23 PM »
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza.

Based on 237+ deaths in Jackson Heights (11372) so far and a population of around 66,000, we already have a 0.35% lethality rate, if you assume 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected.

But it's unlikely that 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected. If only 20% has been infected (the NYC average antibody rate) then the lethality rate in Jackson Heights is more like 1.75%.

The real answer is probably somewhere in between, maybe 1% lethality rate. But 0.1% is clearly wrong.

To add to that, I'm not sure why anyone would only want to look at the lethality rate of this disease. There are many people who have been sick who are left with lasting chronic health issues. Also, this is called a novel (new) disease because it's new and there's quite a bit left to discover and understand.

Virus Survivors Could Suffer Severe Health Effects for Years

Not wearing a mask because of possibly erroneous beliefs (and cherry picking which study about masks to read) is selfish IMO.

Offline JHResident

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2020, 05:54:34 PM »
The Covid-19 mortality rate is much higher than that of influenza. The influenza numbers are inflated with projections. In a typical influenza season in the United States confirmed deaths range between 10,000 and 20,000.  The higher numbers you've read about are projections based on the death rate during the flu season versus the death rate the rest of the year. The 118,000 current deaths reported in the US are confirmed Covid-19 tested deaths.  This is in 3 months versus the year long total of 10,000 to 20,000 for the last two flu seasons.
Compare apples to apples.

Offline KGDHP

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2020, 06:55:47 AM »
For anyone who's interested, Gothamist added a lot of new information/statistics to their Coronavirus tracker.
https://gothamist.com/news/coronavirus-statistics-tracking-epidemic-new-york

Probably the most interesting chart that I hadn't seen was this updated map, that tracks new cases, by neighborhood, just for the past 2 weeks (versus culmulative).
https://covidinteractivesny.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/new_cases_map.html

Jackson Heights (11372) reported 79 new cases over the span of the past 2 weeks.

Given where we were in April, we've come a long way! 

Offline JHResident

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2020, 07:37:45 AM »
Based on Gothamist numbers, 212,061 people in New York City have tested positive and 22,244 have died or 10.4%.

Offline palomita

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2020, 09:11:47 AM »
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store.... There is no scientific evidence that mask are effective for healthy asymptomatic persons and that wearing a mask may interfere with normal respiration.  The report list about 30 points regarding COVID.  I especially am concerned when I see small children wearing mask and wonder how much damage is being done only form a health perspective but from a developmental point of view.  Facial expressions are a critical part of language learning and development.  A smile from a stranger, a grimace, a  frown, a look of anticipation...I can go on..... all carry meaning. Children growing up without seeing the faces of those around them are sure to suffer the most regarding their ability to perceive nuanced  information.

I have so many thoughts about this conversation I don't even know where to begin.  But I'll try.

First, I am a physician and have been working in an inpatient hospital setting throughout this crisis.  I, along with literally 100% of my colleagues across all disciplines from doctors to nurses to environmental services and food services staff, wear a mask for an entire 12 hour shift at a time.  Sometimes I even wear 2 masks at a time!  A surgical mask over an N95 so that the N95 can be reused multiple times.  We can breathe in them, they do not interfere with "normal respiration," and the worst I have suffered is an itchy face and some attractive mask-shaped acne.  The idea that masks are somehow dangerous for the average person is a bogus pseudo-science argument, and if you truly have a contraindication to wearing a mask you better hope that everyone around you is wearing one because your contraindication puts you in a high-risk group for COVID complications.  Just as immunocompromised people who cannot get vaccines need those around them to be vaccinated to protect them, if you have a medical condition which prevents mask use or believe your personal mask use endangers your health then you best be trying to convince everyone ELSE to wear one to protect you.  If you do not have a true contraindication then a mask is at worst an annoying inconvenience.  My patients are women giving birth and they wear masks to protect the team caring for them.  If someone can push a baby out of their body wearing a mask, surely you can wear one to take a leisurely walk outdoors.

Second, if you are willing to wear a mask to patronize a private business that requires it, then you are able to wear a mask.  You are willing to ignore your personal belief that masks are useless or harmful in order to access a service that you want.  Why are you not willing to make the same sacrifice to give your neighbors and community some piece of mind, even if you don't believe it's effective?  People abide by "no shirt no shoes no service" even though going into a coffee shop in just your shorts isn't actually dangerous, it just grosses people out.

Third, as a parent of small children I am more concerned about them losing 1+ years of school and real life socialization with peers/adults other than their parents than their ability to interpret the facial expressions of strangers on the street.  You know what will get them back in school and into playdates with their friends faster?  Universal mask wearing and deference to scientific experts in planning our next steps.  I am not discounting the developmental damage that this crisis may have on them, but the ability to read facial expressions does not seem as critical to me as the ability to resume real-life in-person friendships, not to mention continuing to have living grandparents.

Obviously I believe the data that universal mask wearing is effective in reducing asymptomatic spread.  But even if you don't believe it, the harm to you in wearing a mask (even if you are right that they don't work) is a minor inconvenience.  The harm to your community in not wearing a mask if you are wrong is devastating.

Offline passthekimchi

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2020, 11:45:35 AM »
Palomita, First off thank you for all you and other healthcare professionals have done during this difficult time. We are forever grateful to your service and sacrifice. Also, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight with the community to help keep us safer.

Offline hagsrus

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Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2020, 05:15:38 PM »
Noticed a lot of noses uncovered when I was out on Friday, far more than I ever noticed before.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2020, 05:15:38 PM »