Author Topic: Proposed changes to JH bus network  (Read 10528 times)

Offline jeanette

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2020, 07:30:11 PM »
It is like a drunk designed the new bus map.

I wouldn't doubt that bike lanes and bike safety, your bailiwick, has something to do with the restructuring.

Offline JHResident

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2020, 08:01:54 PM »
It wouldn't hurt to read the study before commenting about the reasons.  I suspect this will lower resale values along 35th Avenue, since the distance from the subway has been a negative for many prospective buyers already. The goal seems to be to speed up service, but for whom? Seems to me ridership will go down if 35th and Roosevelt and 82nd and 83rd riders have to walk.

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2020, 09:25:49 PM »
It is like a drunk designed the new bus map.

No, not at all. The map was designed with some rules that folks around here are debating:

* All subway stops are equal. The goal is to get people onto some form of subway, as fast as possible. (New Q49)
* People do not generally ride a bus beyond the subway. Once a bus hits a subway station, it might as well become a new route. (New Q66)
* Broadway in Elmhurst is too traffic-choked for any bus to run along it. (New Q52)
* There is no reason to run a bus under a subway line which has frequent stops. (Eliminate Q32)

Now ... we are pointing out that some of these assumptions are wrong. The 74th Street stop is more valuable as a destination than 82nd or 90th are. Schoolkids take the Q66 past the subway into Astoria/LIC to get to school. Too many 7 stations are not wheelchair accessible, so that's part of the point of the Q32. This is now the public comment period where we get to make those specific concerns known.

The thing about the 52/53 ... the bus people are right. That run down Broadway through Elmhurst is impassable. But the answer is a bus lane, not eliminating the line.

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2020, 09:29:21 PM »
It wouldn't hurt to read the study before commenting about the reasons.  I suspect this will lower resale values along 35th Avenue, since the distance from the subway has been a negative for many prospective buyers already. The goal seems to be to speed up service, but for whom? Seems to me ridership will go down if 35th and Roosevelt and 82nd and 83rd riders have to walk.

The new QT10 will run up/down 82nd/83rd. So people along that axis get a bus.

Part of the logic here - and I get it - is that 35th and Roosevelt should not need buses. Roosevelt has a train that stops every 8 blocks and comes every few minutes and carries massively more people than a bus. 35th is two blocks from that train line, and also two blocks from a hopefully more frequent Q66 bus line.

I'm much more concerned about how the middle schoolers who use the Q66 will get to school now that it terminates at 48th Street, and ultimately I think we should still have the Q53 beach bus from the 74th Street hub.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2020, 10:10:37 PM »
It wouldn't hurt to read the study before commenting about the reasons.  I suspect this will lower resale values along 35th Avenue, since the distance from the subway has been a negative for many prospective buyers already. The goal seems to be to speed up service, but for whom? Seems to me ridership will go down if 35th and Roosevelt and 82nd and 83rd riders have to walk.

The new QT10 will run up/down 82nd/83rd. So people along that axis get a bus.

Part of the logic here - and I get it - is that 35th and Roosevelt should not need buses. Roosevelt has a train that stops every 8 blocks and comes every few minutes and carries massively more people than a bus. 35th is two blocks from that train line, and also two blocks from a hopefully more frequent Q66 bus line.

I'm much more concerned about how the middle schoolers who use the Q66 will get to school now that it terminates at 48th Street, and ultimately I think we should still have the Q53 beach bus from the 74th Street hub.

if you live at, for example, 86th between 34th and 35th, and you need to catch the E or F train, you can take the Q49 and get to the 74th St. hub. The new bus lines eliminate that possibility entirely. Yes, you could (in this future plan) walk to 88th St. and catch a bus, but that bus only takes you to the 7 train. I believe that many people who use the bus are doing so due to limited mobility, or they are carrying a suitcase or pushing a stroller, and the only access to elevators to a train line are at 74th St.

I think this is a huge mistake. I personally don't take the bus that often, but the times I've needed it due to an injury, I really couldn't do without it.

Whoever came up with this plan does not realize how many people in this area are elderly or don't walk well or are pushing strollers, etc.

Offline toddg

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2020, 10:18:42 PM »
Just returning from vacation.   What did I miss?

As Jeanette guessed, this is the type of topic I tend to get excited about.  I haven't read MTA's plan yet, so I'll save my personal views for another time.  In general, I agree with the way "theplanesland" is thinking about this.   Here's some additional context:

1. MTA's Queens bus network is really old.  Many of these routes trace century-old streetcar lines, or were inherited from defunct private bus carriers.
2. Some transit agencies can routinely tweak and optimize their networks, but others are so heavily regulated that they cannot do that easily.  MTA is squarely in the latter category -- state law requires extensive public hearings and outreach for even minor route changes, and even small details of its budget are used for football in Albany.  In places like this, a public transit network can grow more and more out of step with the evolving needs of the city it serves.
3. To address this situation, there is a growing trend nationwide of transit agencies undertaking a "clean slate" redesign of their bus networks.  The details vary by agency, but the general goal is to reoptimize service for the public under limited resources.  There are always trade-offs -- for example, you can run buses faster by removing some of the stops, or you can run more frequent service by reducing the number of routes.  MTA is trying to achieve a new balance that brings benefits to the riding public while also attracting new passengers into the system.
4. MTA's proposed redesign is the result of a serious research and planning effort, but it isn't finished.  Public input and feedback are a fundamental part of their process.  If you're interested, I recommend that you review what they're proposing, think about how this will affect your decision to ride the bus in the future, and let the MTA know what you think.
- If you do use the bus, look at the trips you take and see how those trips will change.  Think about bus frequencies and speeds as well as the directness of the trips between your true origin and destination.
- Also take a look at trips within Queens that you make frequently, but drive or take a taxi/car service because the bus is not convenient.  Does this proposal make the bus a better candidate for any of those trips?
- Definitely provide feedback to the MTA. 

Here's where to find more information:
https://new.mta.info/queensbusredesign

And here's background on network redesign efforts:
http://transitcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Proceedings-3.pdf
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25487/comprehensive-bus-network-redesigns





« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 10:27:27 PM by toddg »

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2020, 10:21:17 PM »
if you live at, for example, 86th between 34th and 35th, and you need to catch the E or F train, you can take the Q49 and get to the 74th St. hub. The new bus lines eliminate that possibility entirely. Yes, you could (in this future plan) walk to 88th St. and catch a bus, but that bus only takes you to the 7 train.

Right, I think one (understandable) mistake in this plan is that it appears to be predicated on the idea that "all subway stops are equally desirable." So that's some input they need.

Offline JK resident

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2020, 03:09:59 AM »
I don’t think the need for protected bike lanes has anything to do with these new bus routes. Obviously everyone wants to go to 74th street station in the morning. The Q33 going to Queens Center mall is absurd.

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2020, 09:27:55 AM »
I don’t think the need for protected bike lanes has anything to do with these new bus routes. Obviously everyone wants to go to 74th street station in the morning. The Q33 going to Queens Center mall is absurd.

I've been looking more closely at the map and they really seem to be trying to drive people -away- from the 74th Street stop, I think because of perceived congestion on the surrounding streets. They're also keeping buses off of Roosevelt, once again I think because of impassable congestion.


Offline Shelby2

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 09:32:00 AM »
I don’t think the need for protected bike lanes has anything to do with these new bus routes. Obviously everyone wants to go to 74th street station in the morning. The Q33 going to Queens Center mall is absurd.

I've been looking more closely at the map and they really seem to be trying to drive people -away- from the 74th Street stop, I think because of perceived congestion on the surrounding streets. They're also keeping buses off of Roosevelt, once again I think because of impassable congestion.

I noticed the same thing. However, I think that's really unfair to make all routes go to places other than the one place everyone wants/needs to go.

I also think the accessibility thing (elevators) is going to be a huge problem for many who take the bus. If you're taking the bus because it's too hard to walk a few blocks, then it makes absolutely no sense to deliver all those people who can't walk or take stairs to train stations where the only way to enter is through several flights of stairs.

Offline toddg

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 01:43:10 PM »
I also think the accessibility thing (elevators) is going to be a huge problem for many who take the bus. If you're taking the bus because it's too hard to walk a few blocks, then it makes absolutely no sense to deliver all those people who can't walk or take stairs to train stations where the only way to enter is through several flights of stairs.

This is an excellent point.  Comments that focus on a loss of access by passengers with disabilities are likely be taken very seriously.

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 04:25:16 PM »
The Q53 is the bus of dreams to get to Rockaway Beach from JH in summer.

No way can they eliminate it!


Offline hagsrus

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2020, 05:53:28 PM »
"The Q53 is the bus of dreams to get to Rockaway Beach from JH in summer."

Not to mention Elmhurst hospital & Trader Joe!

Offline ellenpratt

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2020, 10:19:51 AM »
Putting a directly personal spin on this, I am an older person with knees that can prevent me from walks of much more than a block or two. I live on 35th Ave. I walk every day as much as I can. My son lives 12 blocks away off of 35th. I frequently take the 49 to his street and walk the half block to his building. There are days when I simply can't walk 12 blocks, no matter how interesting the podcast I'm listening to.

I also take the bus from Roosevelt station to 35th Avenue when I'm coming back from Manhattan. Sometimes I just have to favor my knees and the pain from walking. I really hope the east-west corridor on 35th stays in place.

Offline JH3525

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Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2020, 12:47:58 PM »
It will be very interesting to see how this effects real estate especially cooperatives in Jackson Heights.  If I was purchasing and needed to use the 74th St subway station each day, I would avoid purchasing above 79 St. 

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Q49 bus to be eliminated
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2020, 12:47:58 PM »