Author Topic: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights  (Read 2236 times)

Offline Bill

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2019, 09:56:58 PM »
When we moved into a coop building with a garden 20 years ago, our daughter was 8 years old. In those days, there were very few children. When she and a friend her age would go out in the garden, walking around mainly whispering to each other, some of the older residents would shout out their windows telling them to get off the grass and go home. As I become one of the "older residents" myself, I much prefer the noise today to that. When it comes to the joggers, however, I may start shouting out my window.

Offline mkn567

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 03:02:34 PM »
The noise of children playing can become really unpleasant if the playing involves screaming--as it often does--and large groups of older children.  It's not just the pitter patter of little feet and voices.

Unfortunately parents, especially in clusters, don't understand that. They acquire this entitled and mob mentality of "well it's just children being children and if you don't like it too bad because we're on the board." They completely forget that children running around in the backyard wasn't the norm, and arguably shouldn't be.

 

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 03:06:49 PM »
I am curious whether the older complaining folks were ever children?

And how come they have completely forgotten what fun it is to be a child?

When they were young were children seen but never heard? Was that the rule then?

Offline petegart

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 03:22:30 PM »
Here in the Greystones (west garden) there are many young families with kids.  As someone who moved here in 2008, the laughing, playing children are a joy to hear.
Most of the old timers have either left, or they are now resigned to the fact that people want to use the garden and will use it. 
Almost daily people set out blankets, relax, let the kids run around, and the world is still turning. 

Offline ljr

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 03:30:11 PM »
Not talking about normal amounts of noise attending children at play. Most people--even the much maligned older ones--understand that children will not be totally quiet at all times, and there will be noise. It's out of control screaming for long periods of time that people object to--and I agree with them on that. Would you say that children should be able to make as much noise as they want in the public library? That is another place where there are rules about noise so that others using the library won't be bothered by loud talking, laughing, or in this case--screaming. Would you say that because we all were children once, that children should be free to scream their lungs out in the public library? These arguments are silly, IMO--of course there are rules for a shared garden and there is no reason why they cannot address noise levels.

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 03:48:13 PM »
Not talking about normal amounts of noise attending children at play. Most people--even the much maligned older ones--understand that children will not be totally quiet at all times, and there will be noise. It's out of control screaming for long periods of time that people object to--and I agree with them on that. Would you say that children should be able to make as much noise as they want in the public library? That is another place where there are rules about noise so that others using the library won't be bothered by loud talking, laughing, or in this case--screaming. Would you say that because we all were children once, that children should be free to scream their lungs out in the public library? These arguments are silly, IMO--of course there are rules for a shared garden and there is no reason why they cannot address noise levels.

The trouble with being a child, I suppose, is that before you know it, you're old and cranky.

I would say, instead of complaining about kids having fun screaming, scream along with them with some joy. I think psychologically, it might do old folks some good.

Offline Beherenow

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 05:19:48 PM »
I'm in one of the garden co-ops that changed the rules and gradually allowed kids more freedom. Lately a bunch of new young families have moved in and sometimes it is a real problem. Some residents (like me) often want to sit and enjoy a quiet conversation or read but there are times when a swath of the property is covered with screaming kids with no adult supervision. I understand kids want to play and yell, but it's wrong to criticize "old folks" (and other folks) for wanting peace in a shared space that is an amenity they are paying for...Finding a balance has been very difficult.

Offline Donna

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2019, 06:31:15 PM »
What these parents need to understand is that it is a garden, not a playground, also by law we are all entitled a peaceful existence where we live. Many people who may not be well have to listen to incessant screaming. I liven Hawthorne Court and although the garaden rules cite no screaming, it goes on for hours. Travers is now open, take the kids there to let off steam instead of being selfish and allowing your child to go on and on screaming.

Offline ljr

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2019, 09:18:52 PM »
Alphabet person: funny that you quoted my message but did not address the point I made. Saying that children screaming is fine and normal and and gee, why don't we all just stop being "old and cranky" and scream along with them--well, that's kind of a ridiculous remark. (I didn't want to use the word "stupid," which is what I was thinking.)

Offline hfm

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2019, 11:37:53 PM »
It seems like this all boils down to people not having any respect that they don't exist in this world in a bubble and there's others around that deserve consideration. I think zero tolerance might be going overboard, but as well the amount of parents I see having zero regard that people exist outside of the confines of their kids and themselves is rather high. Yes I understand it's hard. That doesn't make it right. Every time a parent literally uses their stroller as a weapon to brandish like they own the sidewalk or wherever they are pushing it is infuriating. We all just need to be considerate. Maybe some hours of the day where it's ok? Like 12-5 or something? Of course just because it's 12-5 doesn't mean "make all the noise you feel like". There's got to be a way.

Maybe this is why things like the park exist. Why not just use that instead of potentially making all your neighbors hate you for creating noise where the expectation is tranquility?

Offline ljr

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2019, 11:05:19 AM »
hfm--Exactly and well put! I've spoken to longtime residents of our coop who said that when their kids were little, garden access was restricted so they just took the kids to the public park and what is the big deal? It was fine. I've also spoken to people who said they refused to buy in one of the garden coops when they found out that garden rules prohibited playing on the grass (at that time) which they found outrageously restrictive and somehow offensive. The idea was--if I can't do whatever I like in the coop garden, then I don't want to live here at all. Which seems crazy to me. The garden is a gorgeous amenity that everyone can enjoy if the rules are followed to the benefit of all. And yes, it is a garden--not a playground or, as some refer to it, a backyard.

Online dssjh

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2019, 11:55:27 AM »
hfm--Exactly and well put! I've spoken to longtime residents of our coop who said that when their kids were little, garden access was restricted so they just took the kids to the public park and what is the big deal? It was fine. I've also spoken to people who said they refused to buy in one of the garden coops when they found out that garden rules prohibited playing on the grass (at that time) which they found outrageously restrictive and somehow offensive. The idea was--if I can't do whatever I like in the coop garden, then I don't want to live here at all. Which seems crazy to me. The garden is a gorgeous amenity that everyone can enjoy if the rules are followed to the benefit of all. And yes, it is a garden--not a playground or, as some refer to it, a backyard.

i understand what you're saying in a way, and i get that rules are there for a reason and should be respected. but you're also implying that one person's definition of "enjoying" should apply across the board. if you're a young family, you might not "enjoy" having a garden that's there to be looked at, but never used the way you'd like to use it. walking away from that isn't crazy at all.

Offline abcdefghijk

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2019, 01:45:14 PM »
Alphabet person: funny that you quoted my message but did not address the point I made. Saying that children screaming is fine and normal and and gee, why don't we all just stop being "old and cranky" and scream along with them--well, that's kind of a ridiculous remark. (I didn't want to use the word "stupid," which is what I was thinking.)

Your inner joyful child is yearning to be set free. It has been imprisoned for endless decades and the poor kid is crying out for fun. That kid is not stupid or ridiculous. He/she is pleading to be heard. Listen to your inner child.   Scream and laugh loud and clear. Before it's too late!

Offline Shelby2

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2019, 02:04:36 PM »
Alphabet person: funny that you quoted my message but did not address the point I made. Saying that children screaming is fine and normal and and gee, why don't we all just stop being "old and cranky" and scream along with them--well, that's kind of a ridiculous remark. (I didn't want to use the word "stupid," which is what I was thinking.)

Your inner joyful child is yearning to be set free. It has been imprisoned for endless decades and the poor kid is crying out for fun. That kid is not stupid or ridiculous. He/she is pleading to be heard. Listen to your inner child.   Scream and laugh loud and clear. Before it's too late!

Thank goodness I don't live in a building with a lot of screaming children and/or screaming adults in the garden. I would move out right away, and really hope I could find a buyer who would want to buy an apartment that looks out into a garden where screaming is allowed and encouraged. (Doubtful)

Offline hum@njukebox1

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2019, 02:09:06 PM »
Another part of the equation is that the co-op buildings themselves act as a megaphone and amplify the sound coming from the garden and the street.  I've lived in the Greystones for 10 years with very few noise issues coming from the garden.  However, the past two weekends, there has been a little girl in the garden, screaming at the top of her lungs for long periods of time.......30 to 40 minutes at a stretch.  It's simply far too much for anyone to endure.  And I doubt the rest of the residents in my building would appreciate me screaming along.

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Re: Family-friendly co-op gardens in Jackson Heights
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2019, 02:09:06 PM »