Author Topic: Swim Two Birds - Where We're At  (Read 7074 times)

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2016, 06:55:15 AM »
The 90s (the Clinton years) aren't known for their economic despair. There was a recession in the early 90s (1990-1991), but the 1990s were a time of economic prosperity that only ended when the tech bubble burst. 99 cent stores fill a need, and really do have some products that even people who aren't struggling financially would find useful.

Offline deja

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2016, 05:17:54 PM »
Not denying they are useful for some things, but we really don't need 10 ^ 19891829321 of them...

Offline dssjh

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2016, 06:46:42 PM »
well, some folks have raised questions about how 99 cent stores can be profitable enough to pay the often usurious rent prices here, especially on 37th avenue.

i'd like to ask the same question about a place like the newly opened pauglina -- which seems like a perfectly lovely place. can they really sell enough flowers, cutesy decor items and lety's cookies to make  $7000-$9000 rent every month?


Offline francis

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2016, 07:58:57 PM »
They might.   Don't forget,  there's not two "Pauglina's"  on every block like there are 99 cent stores.  The real news here is that now there are three such stores---Inner Peace, Lockwood, and now,  Pauglina.   

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2016, 06:07:28 AM »
The market, in which we participate, will decide what it needs or wants. If it's one 99 cent store every 3-4 blocks, that's what the neighborhood (market) needs and wants. Those stores aren't in business because no one spends their money in them after all. If they don't make enough money to be profitable, they will close. Apparently, they make enough money from the people in the neighborhood to be profitable. Will the new one in the former Italian Farms space be open in year? We'll see.

Online lalochezia

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2016, 04:41:29 PM »
The market, in which we participate, will decide what it needs or wants. If it's one 99 cent store every 3-4 blocks, that's what the neighborhood (market) needs and wants. Those stores aren't in business because no one spends their money in them after all. If they don't make enough money to be profitable, they will close. Apparently, they make enough money from the people in the neighborhood to be profitable. Will the new one in the former Italian Farms space be open in year? We'll see.

These free market exhortations are tiresome and made without evidence.

There are plenty of businesses that either don't make a profit e.g.  manhattan: loss leaders for fashion stores in the village (vast rents, virtually no sles, for halo branding), thru vanity projects of millionaires,
on a more quotidian level
 places that have inertia and 30 year rents, to people that own buildings and run their stores at a loss by renting other units, places that are subsidized by tax breaks (see new construction in williamsburg)

There are plenty of places in JH that aren't "free market", as plenty of people have mentioned "in prices" vs "out prices" for rents and who knows what else.

To compare these with people just starting up without any of these advantages is INSANE.

Please stop it.....

in other words the burden of proof is on you to back up the claim that these are "free market". Show me the books! until then the best we can say is WE DON'T KNOW.
 

Offline dssjh

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2016, 05:52:54 PM »
guilty until proven innocent, eh?

this is the way America has worked for centuries. if you sold your apartment to one of your children below market rate, you wouldn't be morally bankrupt, would you?

you do know private landlords are under no obligation to answer to you about what they do with their property, right?

why should you or i have any right to tell a landlord not to cut a deal for a friend of a friend?
try selling that fiction to the "legitimate businessmen" in certain brooklyn neighborhoods. or the orthodox community.  or the poles. or the irish. or anyone.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2016, 08:43:15 PM »

These free market exhortations are tiresome and made without evidence.
If you think there is no evidence for markets, that is very unfortunate for you.
There are plenty of businesses that either don't make a profit e.g.  manhattan: loss leaders for fashion stores in the village (vast rents, virtually no sles, for halo branding), thru vanity projects of millionaires,
on a more quotidian level

you don't understand what a loss leader is.
places that have inertia and 30 year rents, to people that own buildings and run their stores at a loss by renting other units, places that are subsidized by tax breaks (see new construction in williamsburg)

You think business people run their businesses at a loss? Give me a break. Could the occasional real estate investor run a vanity business that losses money and subsidize it with rental income? Absolutely. But in the end it could not be done if that person weren't making enough money to not only cover the loss from the vanity business, but be making enough money to be profitable overall.

Additionally, who the heck do you think is running a 99 cent store as a vanity business? Get out of here with that.


There are plenty of places in JH that aren't "free market", as plenty of people have mentioned "in prices" vs "out prices" for rents and who knows what else. 

Is see a lot of hypothesis, but no actual evidence.


To compare these with people just starting up without any of these advantages is INSANE.

Please stop it.....

Maybe you should consider taking it down about 15 notches. There was absolutely no reason for this outburst.


in other words the burden of proof is on you to back up the claim that these are "free market". Show me the books! until then the best we can say is WE DON'T KNOW.

Exactly where did I use the term "free market" that seems to have been the trigger for this melt down? OH THAT'S RIGHT! I DIDN'T.

By the way, there's a reason dictionaries provide multiple meanings for words. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/market

Online lalochezia

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2016, 01:01:01 PM »
You're right. My tone was too strident. I apologize.

Seriously: What kind of market from your dictionary "will decide what it needs or wants" if it isn't "free".

Market in the context you used it is usually shorthand for "a system in which players maximize their economic advantage to a set of rules". Except that there are some sets of rules for some and others for others, and the rules are opaque……

And this is implicitly ignored by members of this board who  -perhaps unintentionally -  ascribe blame and weakness to businesses that fail to start - e.g.

"you quit, right guys” (with all the moral implications that this has)

or ascribe it to another cause  such as

 "the market" - free or otherwise -  "will decide what it needs or wants" as if it were a dispassionate law of nature that we must hew to rather than the somewhat biased prejudicial human-generated system that operates here.

In other words. we don’t need to accept that “ some locals can open businesses whereas these other  people can’t open….. therefore must be something wrong with THESE OTHER PEOPLE”  rather than something being wrong with our neighborhood’s economic structure.



Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2016, 01:31:31 PM »
^Thank you, appreciate that.

I posted the following:

The market, in which we participate, will decide what it needs or wants. If it's one 99 cent store every 3-4 blocks, that's what the neighborhood (market) needs and wants.

Which aligns with:
4a (1) :  a geographic area of demand for commodities or services (2) :  a specified category of potential buyers <the youth market>

People tend to overstate how many 99 cent stores there are (e.g. two every block) when in fact 37th Avenue there's about 1 ever 4-5 blocks. There's one near Trade Fair up near 90th St., one at 85th St., one at 81st St., one or two near 78th St. Beyond that I don't think there are more farther down, though I could be mistaken.

The very existence of these businesses suggests the Jackson Heights market can support these businesses. (Ain't nobody travelling to Jackson Heights for a 99 cent store.) 99 cent stores aren't vanity businesses (a store like Pauglina strikes me as the type of store that would fit the profile of someone's vanity business).

We also have a whole lot of eye glass places, and the existence of so many places to buy eye glasses hasn't led to people complaining that we don't need that many eye glass places. Why is that? 

Offline M7X7

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2016, 02:00:17 PM »

We also have a whole lot of eye glass places, and the existence of so many places to buy eye glasses hasn't led to people complaining that we don't need that many eye glass places. Why is that?

I have actually wondered about that also. Who is buying all these glasses? Especially nowadays, when you can get them from online retailers for a fraction of the price of brick and mortar.

Offline deja

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2016, 04:12:00 PM »
There's a 99 cent store up on 82nd between Roosevelt and Baxter.  I understand how they stay in business, there's always a lot of people in there and often a line at the cashiers.  Most of the others seem to always be empty.  That's why I wonder. 

Assuming a 1 dollar item costs 0.10 for them to purchase, they'd still have to sell 185 of them each and every day to make just a $5000 rent.  Which in JH is on the low side. 


Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2016, 06:20:55 PM »
^99 cent stores today are 99 cents and up stores. Heck, I picked up a portable closet years ago at a 99 cent store.

I've never noticed dead 99 cent stores. It's rare there's a huge crowd, but there's usually a couple customers there when I go to on, which is often. I regularly buy toothpaste, toilet paper, paper towels, toiletries, and household items at the 99 cent stores. I'll usually take a quick tour to see if there's anything that's a really good deal. You'd be surprised what turns up at 99 cent stores. The items there aren't going to be the most beautiful, but they'll do the job. Don't buy a screw driver at the 99 cent store, but do buy your coaxial cable and digital converter for an old TV there.

Items in my home that come from a 99 cent store: aluminum sauce pan we use to fry food; christmas lights; christmas decorations from my first christmas in my own place; a small plastic bucket with a lid to put cat food in; a pitcher; coaxial cable; deodorant; a shot glass; drinking glasses; baby oil; a big tub of off brand petroleum jelly that I've had for over a decade and literally cost 99 cents; a shower curtain liner; blue plastic recycling bags; a napkin holder; flower pots; and loads more. When times are tough and I've have to find ways to cut back, the cheap body lotion and White Rain shampoo are better than nothing!

There's so much that I and others can and do buy at the 99 cent store - which is closer to me than a drug store or home good stores - that their financial viability isn't something I question.

Offline ECG

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2016, 08:29:47 PM »
I was in one today. Toothpaste at a reasonable price!

So, I was wondering how to get back to "Swim 2 Birds" or is it's so dead it's forgotten?

Offline dssjh

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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2016, 10:45:03 PM »
i walk by the location that may or may not be swim two birds every day at least twice, and haven't seen any sign of activity in many months. there's also been no activity on social media for a loooooong time, a bad sign considering the frequency of updates that stew once provided.


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Re: Swim Two Birds, the final chapter?
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2016, 10:45:03 PM »