Jackson Heights Life

Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: Shelby2 on November 08, 2009, 11:41:40 AM

Title: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Shelby2 on November 08, 2009, 11:41:40 AM
The protest will involve 50 students from a Queens high school going to protest outside this person's home on 89th St. in JH.  Info below.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/134286

(IsraelNN.com) Monday, November 9, marks the 71st anniversary of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, which is widely considered the beginning of the Holocaust -- and high school in students in New York will mark the occasion by demanding the deportation of a Nazi war criminal.

On November 9-10, 1938, gangs of Nazi youth, with the unofficial but clear encouragement of Nazi leaders, committed pogroms in Jewish neighborhoods throughout Germany and Austria. They smashed Jewish storefronts and homes, destroyed over 250 synagogues, and vandalized over 7,500 Jewish stores and businesses. Close to 100 Jews were killed, and 26,000 were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

In Queens, New York, two high schools will commemorate the event by demanding the deportation of a known Nazi war criminal from the U.S. to Germany. The German government has refused to accept the deportation of Jakiw Palij, whose U.S. citizenship has been revoked. Female students will protest on Monday morning outside Palij’s home, followed later by a boys’ protest in front of the German Mission to the UN.

Follow link above for complete article.
Title: Re: Protest tomorrow against Nazi war criminal in JH (Nov. 9, 2009)
Post by: Chuckster on November 08, 2009, 11:52:36 AM
I think these protests against Jakiw Palij have been scheduled regularly for the past few years.

Here's a video clip from NY1 from the 2007 protest:

Jewish Students Call For Deportation Of Alleged Nazi War Criminal (http://ny1.com/5-manhattan-news-content/top_stories/?SecID=1000&ArID=75440)
Title: Re: Protest tomorrow against Nazi war criminal in JH (Nov. 9, 2009)
Post by: Shelby2 on November 08, 2009, 11:58:15 AM
Interesting.  Maybe he will arrange not to be home on the days of the protests.   It doesn't sound like the protests are resulting in any action, but I guess they are drawing attention to the matter.
Title: Re: Protest tomorrow against Nazi war criminal in JH (Nov. 9, 2009)
Post by: Chuckster on November 09, 2009, 11:26:27 PM
Here's a video from NY1 on today's protest:

Rally Held Outside Home Of Accused Nazi War Criminal (http://ny1.com/8-queens-news-content/top_stories/108678/rally-held-outside-home-of-accused-nazi-war-criminal)
Title: Re: Protest tomorrow against Nazi war criminal in JH (Nov. 9, 2009)
Post by: DCTRANSPLANT on November 10, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
Why isn't he being sent to Israel?
Title: Re: Protest tomorrow against Nazi war criminal in JH (Nov. 9, 2009)
Post by: dssjh on November 10, 2009, 09:09:33 AM
the protests certainly draw the attention of innocent neighbors whose quality of life is trashed when these protests happen.

don't get me wrong....not defending this individual in any way, and i genuinely believe he should be deported. but having had close friends who lived on the block where john demjanjuk -- the cleveland war criminal who was finally removed from our country after 25 years of this -- lived, i know that the bile spewed at the accused's home splashes onto everyone who resides on the block.

Interesting.  Maybe he will arrange not to be home on the days of the protests.   It doesn't sound like the protests are resulting in any action, but I guess they are drawing attention to the matter.
Title: CNN article about former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Lilybell on January 27, 2016, 10:04:15 AM
Wow.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/nazi-hunter-eli-rosenbaum/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/politics/nazi-hunter-eli-rosenbaum/index.html)
Title: Re: CNN article about former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Shelby2 on January 27, 2016, 10:18:47 AM
The article says he's quietly living out his life, but didn't mention the annual protests that are staged outside his house.  I don't know, maybe they're not happening anymore, but we did have a thread a few years ago where someone mentioned the protests happen once a year.  http://www.jacksonheightslife.com/community/index.php?topic=3618.msg23634#msg23634
Title: Re: CNN article about former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Lilybell on January 27, 2016, 10:33:26 AM
I don't remember that thread so thanks for linking to it!
Title: Revived Nazi neighbor story
Post by: Gordan on April 25, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
This is a story that re-surfaces every few years but, it made the cover of the Daily news today.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/jewish-hs-students-protest-nyc-home-nazi-guard-article-1.3095898
Title: Re: Revived Nazi neighbor story
Post by: dssjh on April 25, 2017, 09:45:04 PM
i'm proud of those kids. we had a decrepit old Nazi like this in my neighborhood when i was growing up - a rat named John Demjanjuk. the apologists said 'he's old, it was a long time ago, let it go.' like he racked up parking tickets or something. the USA finally deported him and he croaked after being convicted as an accessory to the murders of 28,000 Jews.

while i advocate punching Nazis whenever possible, i wouldn't punch this one myself. i would, however, hold his arms to his sides so a Holocaust survivor could do so. it's the least i could do.
Title: Re: Revived Nazi neighbor story
Post by: theplanesland on April 26, 2017, 08:34:37 AM
i'm proud of those kids. we had a decrepit old Nazi like this in my neighborhood when i was growing up - a rat named John Demjanjuk. the apologists said 'he's old, it was a long time ago, let it go.' like he racked up parking tickets or something. the USA finally deported him and he croaked after being convicted as an accessory to the murders of 28,000 Jews.

while i advocate punching Nazis whenever possible, i wouldn't punch this one myself. i would, however, hold his arms to his sides so a Holocaust survivor could do so. it's the least i could do.

Yes, I agree; proportionality requires that he be punched by another 90-year-old.
Title: Re: Revived Nazi neighbor story
Post by: missmarty on April 26, 2017, 10:31:55 AM
The article raised the question of whether he'd been receiving social security or other payments here in the U.S.
That certainly needs addressing.
Title: Re: Revived Nazi neighbor story
Post by: wlirfan on April 26, 2017, 12:24:45 PM
I agree with the kids here.  If he were an ordinary day to day soldier fighting for the Nazis, no, he shouldn't be prosecuted.  But the guards and the people at these camps were not day to day recruits.  These were cushy assignments given to what the Nazis felt were their strongest supporters.  People with connections that led a good life with their families, while torturing and killing others. 

I'm shocked that this guy is still here, and that the U.S. isn't doing anything about it.  At the very least, citizenship should be revoked as he would have had to lie on his application to be able to live here.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: toddg on December 05, 2017, 09:52:27 AM
He's back in the news.

NYT Editorial Board: Justice Long Delayed for Nazi Collaborator (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/opinion/nazi-collaborator-queens.html) (Nov. 29, 2017)
Times Ledger: Trump administration pledges to deport former Nazi guard living in Jackson Heights (https://www.timesledger.com/stories/2017/48/jaxhgtsnazi_2017_12_01_q.html) (Nov. 30, 2017)
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Matt on March 30, 2018, 09:59:52 PM
Again. ICE can't do anything right.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-wont-deport-the-last-nazi-war-criminal-in-america
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Gordan on March 31, 2018, 12:03:32 AM
Read this yesterday. Much more in depth than anything that's been written about this over the years. Interesting to see how this story has gained traction during Trump's tenure and how it exposes the farce of who is targeted for deportation. Why not let this guy languish in a private prison in some other state? Thats a rhetorical question. I know already know the answer.
Title: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 21, 2018, 08:09:58 AM
The feds have finally decided to deport the guy. sighs of relief all around (and cue the chorus of "he's an old man, leave him alone, what's a few thousand murders between friends?")

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-news-ny-nazi-deport-20180821-story.html
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: wlirfan on August 21, 2018, 10:54:11 AM
I don't think you'll find many people opposing this news.  Glad it finally happened - no matter what his age.  He helped to kill thousands.  He should not be left to rest in comfort in our neighborhood until his death.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: Shelby2 on August 21, 2018, 10:59:04 AM
Coincidentally, last week I went to the House of Terror in Budapest (former headquarters of the communist secret police with exhibitions to commemorate the victims of the fascist and communist regimes of Hungary in the 20th century) with some family members, and afterwards was telling them how I live only a few blocks from the last known Nazi in the US, and explaining how supposedly he couldn't be deported. I'll have to send them the link to let them know we finally got rid of this criminal!
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 21, 2018, 12:29:36 PM
I don't think you'll find many people opposing this news.  Glad it finally happened - no matter what his age.  He helped to kill thousands.  He should not be left to rest in comfort in our neighborhood until his death.

i would hope you are right. perhaps i was on another forum when i encountered the "defenders" (not really defenders, but ... you know...blind eye types).
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: Jeffsayyes on August 21, 2018, 02:37:58 PM
I don't think it's so clear cut. Why is this happening now? I don't totally feel comfortable with it. He is 95 and was led out on a stretcher - he probably has nothing left in him. It just seems like they are saying 'See? ICE can do some pretty good things too.' ---- I'd rather he was still here and they wouldn't break the families up in our neighborhood. I don't want to take any gifts from Donald Trump.


He should have been gone a long time ago and I don't feel like them using him as a pawn now to manipulate us.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: JH3525 on August 21, 2018, 03:37:57 PM
Its just recently that the US was able to convince Germany to accept Mr. Palij.  I'm certain there are many who are wondering how sending Mr. Palij to the magnificent city of Duesseldorf to spend his remaining years in a Care Facility that I'm convinced will be far superior to our Queens Nursing Homes is punishment.   There will never be a trial.  The Trump Administration has been under pressure from many Organizations and Politicians to deport Mr. Palij and it happened.  I don't understand why it didn't happen when Presidents Bush & Obama were in office.  Anyway, I'm happy he's gone. 
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 21, 2018, 04:32:43 PM
if we had an Esso station on Northern, i'd say we could handle it ourselves, but we don't.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: kmjh on August 22, 2018, 07:20:43 AM
Its just recently that the US was able to convince Germany to accept Mr. Palij.  I'm certain there are many who are wondering how sending Mr. Palij to the magnificent city of Duesseldorf to spend his remaining years in a Care Facility that I'm convinced will be far superior to our Queens Nursing Homes is punishment.   There will never be a trial.  The Trump Administration has been under pressure from many Organizations and Politicians to deport Mr. Palij and it happened.  I don't understand why it didn't happen when Presidents Bush & Obama were in office.  Anyway, I'm happy he's gone.

Because no country would take him until Germany changed its mind.
From the Times story

"He was ordered deported in 2004. But the United States could not find a country willing to take him. So Mr. Palij remained a New Yorker during an international game of keep-away between Poland, Ukraine and Germany. (He was born in a part of Poland that is now part of Ukraine.)"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/nazi-queens-deported.html

Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: JH3525 on August 22, 2018, 08:28:00 AM
A US Judge ordered his deportation in 2004 but since he was someone without a Country no one wanted him.  I don't understand why at that time Mr. Palij was not sent to Israel to stand trial which would have made the most sense.   
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 22, 2018, 08:50:41 AM
A US Judge ordered his deportation in 2004 but since he was someone without a Country no one wanted him.  I don't understand why at that time Mr. Palij was not sent to Israel to stand trial which would have made the most sense.   

while i appreciate the knife-twist there, and as much as i personally think the man is guilty, he did deserve a trial, not a summary execution by a jury of his victims.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: wlirfan on August 22, 2018, 10:33:14 AM
I don't want to take any gifts from Donald Trump.

He should have been gone a long time ago and I don't feel like them using him as a pawn now to manipulate us.

I'll take this gift.  And an impeachment followed by a prison sentence for him, Junior and Jared (a boy can dream).
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: queenskid2 on August 22, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
A US Judge ordered his deportation in 2004 but since he was someone without a Country no one wanted him.  I don't understand why at that time Mr. Palij was not sent to Israel to stand trial which would have made the most sense.   

while i appreciate the knife-twist there, and as much as i personally think the man is guilty, he did deserve a trial, not a summary execution by a jury of his victims.

He did get a trial, before a federal judge who found that he lied on his naturalization application.  The judge then stripped him of his US citizenship.  This was NOT a "summary execution by a jury of his victims."  He received more due process than the Jews who were in fact summarily executed in the camp where he worked. 
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 22, 2018, 12:24:02 PM
i'm talking about the suggestion that he be sent to Israel for trial. i thought that was clear.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: Chingwa on August 27, 2018, 06:39:07 PM
Sounds like a witch hunt to me.
Title: Re: Neighborhood Nazi Nixed
Post by: dssjh on August 27, 2018, 06:47:07 PM
witch hunt doesn't end until the last splash.
Title: Jackson Heights Nazi has died
Post by: dssjh on January 10, 2019, 05:30:59 PM
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-queens-nazi-20190110-story.html
Title: Jakiw Palij - Nazi Prison Guard
Post by: JH3525 on January 10, 2019, 08:26:16 PM
The Daily News has reported that the Nazi Prison Guard from Jackson Heights who was deported to Germany has died at the age of 95 at a Nursing Home in Germany. 
Title: Re: Jakiw Palij - Nazi Prison Guard
Post by: dssjh on January 10, 2019, 09:05:40 PM
may his memory be a curse.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 12, 2019, 12:29:32 PM
It's great that we have words like Nazi so that we can have a clear conscience when we decide to not treat someone like a human being. 
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: dssjh on January 12, 2019, 12:59:33 PM
we have a word like Nazi to stuff into the cold dead throat of a Nazi who worked at a Nazi concentation camp and murdered, raped and incinerated people for his Nazi beliefs and died alone and unloved in a Nazi bed.

you've been upset on one or two other threads over the use of the word Nazi.

that's intriguing.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 12, 2019, 02:22:23 PM
What's intriguing is that some people are easily willing to dehumanize someone, to the point of spouting absolute hateful and violent vitriol, simply by the association of a single word.  Apparently we learned nothing from the evil deeds of actual Nazis.

You can levy any kind of lame insinuation against me that you want, but I'm not going to jump on your reactionary bandwagon simply because you've used a scary word.

I for one would be interested to hear this man's actual story before condemning him in the court of public opinion.  But noone is asking him his story, and now it's too late.  That might be a good thing in your mind, but I am interested in what factors drove this person in his path in life.  One thing is for certain, he wasn't Hitler nor Himmler, and generally shouldn't be destroyed by association.  There were plenty of Nazi party members that absolutely did far worse than this man that were pardoned afterward (both legally and socially).  Some even worked for our government.

I don't like mob mentality, or rush to judgement.  And I don't like the substitution of critical thought with labels and symbols.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: carrefour_ny on January 12, 2019, 02:42:33 PM
@chingwa: what are you talking about "condemning him in the court of public opinion" and "understanding the factors that drove him to it"?

The first is the wrong question to ask as there is tons of actual evidence -- not "opinions" (read the background, here, for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/nazi-queens-deported.html)

 -- and the second -- no "path of life" is an excuse for participating in genocide; the Nurenberg trials demonstrated that we have a moral responsibility for our actions. See for instance Hannah Arendt's study of Eichmann's trial, or the Banality of Evil, or really, any other study.

So yeah this would be an appropriate moment to judge him "by association" and to be scared.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 12, 2019, 03:24:26 PM
@carrefour_ny thank you for the article.  It doesn't really give proper details on what he was convicted of doing, other than being condemned by association though.  His obituary on the Washington Post gives more details about his life but also doesn't say he actually committed any war crimes.  In fact the only stated crime that I can see is that he lied on his immigration papers.

His story sounds rather tragic in all honesty, with his country being invaded by the USSR, then invaded by the Germans who posed as "liberators", then being recruited into Nazi service (which, let's not be naive, likely was forced recruitment).  WP says he was assigned to an adjacent labor camp from Trawniki...  so maybe his actions as a guard led to people being murdered... maybe he murdered people himself, or maybe he didn't.  We'll never know.  We can get the personal story of Charles Manson, but not this 95 year old Nazi, eh?

We have a responsibility to look at history with a nuanced eye.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: jeanette on January 12, 2019, 04:23:00 PM
We have a responsibility to look at history with a nuanced eye.

Not in this (binary) climate.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: carrefour_ny on January 12, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Chingwa. I appreciate your willingness to be nuanced and to give the benefit of the doubt, but your view is uninformed. The "victim" story is one used by thousands of Nazis who tried to cast themselves as victims. They've largely been disproved. This is not the story of a victim of geopolitics, who has unfairly been victimized again at the end of his life. Ask me --  I have a PhD on this. And this is not the climate for moral fuzziness.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 12, 2019, 05:43:02 PM
Thanks Carrefour_ny, I concede that I have only a minor interest in this subject and am certainly not as informed as someone who has studied in depth.  I also understand that many would lie and cast themselves as victims, of course they would.  However each case should be judged by the actual facts if we are to maintain a moral authority as a society, and I haven't seen the facts of this case to be worth the mass condemnation.  I'm sure you have more in depth info about this specific case than what is penned across current news articles.

I strongly disagree however that the current(or any) political climate has any bearing on how we treat these issues.  That is a tendency toward mob and reactionary rule that does not lend itself toward just examination.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: sps on January 12, 2019, 09:57:44 PM
> It's great that we have words like Nazi so that we can have a clear conscience when we decide to not treat someone like a human being.

We have words like "Nazi" to refer to people that worked in factories that were created for the purpose of killing people based on their ethnicity, like the one were Palij worked, where just under a million people killed.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 13, 2019, 12:32:32 AM
Yeah sure, that is the common definition.  However there were plenty of normal people in the Nazi party that were not evil maniacs, believe it or not.  In our rush to condemn we also obliterate important perspective on history and human nature.  But noone is interested in that in the age of outrage.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: sps on January 13, 2019, 12:38:35 AM
You’re right that is the common definition, and also perfectly defines who he was.

Congratulations on your “nuance”.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: Chingwa on January 13, 2019, 12:52:26 AM
I'm fully confident in my understanding of the word, thanks.
Title: Re: Former Nazi guard living in JH
Post by: dssjh on January 14, 2019, 07:57:10 PM
and i'm perfectly confident that it's our moral imperative to dance on a Nazi's grave - figuratively, since we can't do it literally, sadly enough.