Jackson Heights Life

Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: jo3boxer on June 16, 2020, 07:47:28 AM

Title: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 16, 2020, 07:47:28 AM
I think we'll stop, but we've been using 34th Ave religiously every morning to get a walk in before starting our day.

Along the walk we see it all, mask wearers, chin protectors, elbow protectors, hand accessories

I'm wondering if anyone here who choses to walk along the 34th Ave 'path' decides it's important enough to bring outside, put on their head, but not wear across their mouth and nose.

And if you are one of those people, why would you do so along a path you're guaranteed to be close to people on, especially when you're panting like a dog on a run or zooming past on a bike?

I figure since this is the internet your identity is relatively protected, and im genuinely interested in your POV.

Thanks

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: KGDHP on June 16, 2020, 08:18:46 AM
I think we'll stop, but we've been using 34th Ave religiously every morning to get a walk in before starting our day.

Along the walk we see it all, mask wearers, chin protectors, elbow protectors, hand accessories

I'm wondering if anyone here who choses to walk along the 34th Ave 'path' decides it's important enough to bring outside, put on their head, but not wear across their mouth and nose.

And if you are one of those people, why would you do so along a path you're guaranteed to be close to people on, especially when you're panting like a dog on a run or zooming past on a bike?

I figure since this is the internet your identity is relatively protected, and im genuinely interested in your POV.

Thanks

So the mask wearing guideline reads as such:

A New York State mandate requires everyone to wear a face covering when outside their home if unable to maintain at least 6 feet of distance from others.

In the times that I typically use 34th avenue, I have no difficulty maintaining 6 feet of distance from people. I don't use it at peak hours...I go early in the morning and enjoy the fresh air.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: KGDHP on June 16, 2020, 08:29:17 AM
I just wanted to add an addendum, before the mob comes at me accusing me of being a bad person, that I always wear a mask on 37th Ave, for example...maybe a rare exception would be if I'm strolling in the late evening and there literally is no one outside and I pull it down. And I always wear mask (and gloves) in stores.

I'm not foolish or irresponsible. But I do feel like 34th Ave is wide enough so I can responsibly avoid most people. If I'm running, for example, at a peak time...I will go up into east Elmhurst, where I'm guaranteed to see no one!
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 16, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
Quote
In the times that I typically use 34th avenue, I have no difficulty maintaining 6 feet of distance from people.

Me too. Large chunks of the day it's not difficult to keep more than 6 ft between yourself and others on 34th Avenue. When it's rainy or threatening rain out, it's even easier. I use a bandana or masks with a neck tether, so it's easy to put on when needed.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on June 16, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
I feel I can maintain 6' of social distancing when riding a bike.  If I'm out and about on 37th and in and out of stores, I've got a mask on. 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: hfm on June 16, 2020, 11:00:08 PM
The times I've been on 34th it was impossible to maintain distance, and it's not like 6 feet is a silver bullet. Sure it reduces your risk. But if you're wandering around with people that aren't wearing one or wearing it in a manner that renders it useless, it's just too much risk IMO.

Was everyone like NOT here for March and April being a living hell on first responders and hospital staff?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on June 17, 2020, 06:23:32 AM
As I understand it, the 6' of social distancing refers to people occupying the same space for at least a short period of time.......not when passing by for a few seconds.

I think this is where the confusion lies. 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on June 17, 2020, 08:50:44 AM
As I understand it, the 6' of social distancing refers to people occupying the same space for at least a short period of time.......not when passing by for a few seconds.

I think this is where the confusion lies.

I think the information and recommendations have been all over the place, depending on the date the info comes out, and depending on which expert you're listening to.

Recently in a Times article, it does say something along the lines of what you stated: Experts say that a person walking, jogging or cycling too close for a few seconds is not a big worry. But they recommend joggers wear a mask or some other form of face covering if they’re going to come close to other people. If someone sets up a picnic blanket within your six-foot perimeter and plans to stay a while, that’s a bigger concern. Try to avoid a confrontation. That only increases your risk of exposure. Such conflicts could spike as more people head outside.

It also says:
“The risk is lower outdoors, but it’s not zero,” said Shan Soe-Lin, a lecturer at the Yale Jackson Institute for Global Affairs. “And I think the risk is higher if you have two people who are stationary next to each other for a long time, like on a beach blanket, rather than people who are walking and passing each other.”

The article is at https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/us/coronavirus-what-to-do-outside.html and was published May 15.


Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: 7 on June 17, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
Given that Jackson Heights was one of the worst hit neighborhoods for coronavirus in the entire world, with at least 236 deaths here so far, trying to justify not wearing masks seems stupid

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/data-by-modzcta.csv
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on June 17, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
Given that Jackson Heights was one of the worst hit neighborhoods for coronavirus in the entire world, with at least 236 deaths here so far, trying to justify not wearing masks seems stupid

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/data-by-modzcta.csv

I agree and I hope the quotes I put above didn't make it sound like I think people shouldn't wear masks outside in relatively crowded spaces like 34th Ave in the afternoons and evenings. I read something that said if 80% of Americans wore masks that infections would plummet.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 17, 2020, 01:34:20 PM
Quote
trying to justify not wearing masks seems stupid

someone asked why folks who walk on 34th Avenue without their masks on do so. No one has said they can't wait to go to whereever the Republican Convention ends up this summer with a full house and no mask wearing. Those of us who do it explain when and why we do.

Mask wearing has become a cargo cult to some. Most people are reasonable, but I've been on blocks with no one on my side of the street for the entire block and someone across the street yelled at me to put my mask on. It's weird.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 17, 2020, 03:40:20 PM
I think we'll stop, but we've been using 34th Ave religiously every morning to get a walk in before starting our day.

Along the walk we see it all, mask wearers, chin protectors, elbow protectors, hand accessories

I'm wondering if anyone here who choses to walk along the 34th Ave 'path' decides it's important enough to bring outside, put on their head, but not wear across their mouth and nose.

And if you are one of those people, why would you do so along a path you're guaranteed to be close to people on, especially when you're panting like a dog on a run or zooming past on a bike?

I figure since this is the internet your identity is relatively protected, and im genuinely interested in your POV.

Thanks

So the mask wearing guideline reads as such:

A New York State mandate requires everyone to wear a face covering when outside their home if unable to maintain at least 6 feet of distance from others.

In the times that I typically use 34th avenue, I have no difficulty maintaining 6 feet of distance from people. I don't use it at peak hours...I go early in the morning and enjoy the fresh air.

I'll give you benefit of the doubt  then. However what we encounter often are runners, cyclists and walkers who are wearing masks around their neck, but not on the face, and then not respecting (regardless of whether its for a millisecond or however long) the 6ft rule. Coming unnecessarily close because they can't be bothered.

Regardless, I don't know why one would come to an area where there are guaranteed to be people, and decide they don't need the mask. if you do so on a quiet street past northern blvd, it's easy enough to avoid you. otherwise? there are so many people it makes it quite difficult.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 17, 2020, 03:42:25 PM
Given that Jackson Heights was one of the worst hit neighborhoods for coronavirus in the entire world, with at least 236 deaths here so far, trying to justify not wearing masks seems stupid

https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/data-by-modzcta.csv

this.

it's like someone said if you stay 6 ft away from a bomb, you'll be safe. instead of erring on the side of caution you figure 5 ft is probably fine if 6 is.

if someone told me id be safe from a bomb at 6 ft, i'd stay 12.

and that goes back to not walking along 34th any longer. the bombs are too close.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 17, 2020, 03:44:38 PM
Quote
trying to justify not wearing masks seems stupid

someone asked why folks who walk on 34th Avenue without their masks on do so. No one has said they can't wait to go to whereever the Republican Convention ends up this summer with a full house and no mask wearing. Those of us who do it explain when and why we do.

Mask wearing has become a cargo cult to some. Most people are reasonable, but I've been on blocks with no one on my side of the street for the entire block and someone across the street yelled at me to put my mask on. It's weird.

you walk on 34th ave that has everything from reckless children to susceptible old people, but the ones who ask you to wear a mask are unreasonable? do you have control over those around you? why not walk elsewhere?

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 17, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
Quote
you walk on 34th ave that has everything from reckless children to susceptible old people, but the ones who ask you to wear a mask are unreasonable?

Gee, it's like you didn't read (or comprehend) anything I wrote previously, or what you even quoted. Tell you what, go to 34th Avenue at 8 am and tell me how crowded it is (it isn't).

And yeah, yelling at someone across the street when there's no one on the block to put a mask on is unreasonable. You know what the rule is. If you think everyone should be adhering to another rule (the one you made up in your head and not mandated by the state), you should probably just not go outside.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 17, 2020, 08:14:28 PM
Quote
you walk on 34th ave that has everything from reckless children to susceptible old people, but the ones who ask you to wear a mask are unreasonable?

Gee, it's like you didn't read (or comprehend) anything I wrote previously, or what you even quoted. Tell you what, go to 34th Avenue at 8 am and tell me how crowded it is (it isn't).

And yeah, yelling at someone across the street when there's no one on the block to put a mask on is unreasonable. You know what the rule is. If you think everyone should be adhering to another rule (the one you made up in your head and not mandated by the state), you should probably just not go outside.

i just think it's funny you need a rule to be responsible. i read and comprehended everything you wrote and i still think you should be wearing a mask. if you walk in a place that is public and designated for people to congregate (albeit moving, for the most part) you should have a mask on. if you don't you should have it at the ready for when someone passes you by or vice versa.

did you not expect me to extrapolate from your statement that you also walk without a mask when you do pass by people? or should i just assume that during this entire lock down, you've only gone down one block and on that one block, you got yelled at by someone going the opposite direction of you.

golly.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Matt on June 17, 2020, 10:17:49 PM
If someone is following the rules, then they are being responsible.

Perhaps it's the rules that you should take issue with, not the individuals following them. Get on the phone with your elected officials and demand stricter rules if you don't think they are enough.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on June 17, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
This is what Cuomo had to say about mask wearing and social distancing:

"If you're going to be in public and you cannot maintain social distancing, then have a mask and put the mask on when you are not in socially distanced places," The Governor said Wednesday. "You're walking down the street, you're walking down the street alone? Great. You're now at an intersection and there are people in the intersection and you're going to be in proximity to other people? Put the mask on."

https://cbs6albany.com/news/coronavirus/faqs-about-new-yorks-face-mask-in-public-executive-order-now-in-effect
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 18, 2020, 05:31:45 AM
Quote
i just think it's funny you need a rule to be responsible. i read and comprehended everything you wrote and i still think you should be wearing a mask. if you walk in a place that is public and designated for people to congregate (albeit moving, for the most part) you should have a mask on. if you don't you should have it at the ready for when someone passes you by or vice versa.

so when you you write were genuinely interested in someone's POV, what you really meant was "I want to hear from you so I can extrapolate from your statements something not at all said, and then act obnoxiously towards you on the internet." Got it!

Quote
did you not expect me to extrapolate from your statement that you also walk without a mask when you do pass by people? or should i just assume that during this entire lock down, you've only gone down one block and on that one block, you got yelled at by someone going the opposite direction of you.

I expected you to read the statements and understand that when someone states there's plenty of times it's not hard to maintain a lot of distance between people on 34th Avenue and elsewhere, they mean it's not hard to do. I think you should also know 34th Avenue isn't the only street in Jackson Heights, so when people talk about walking on blocks, you might want to try and and wrap your head around the idea that there are many, many, many blocks in Jackson Heights (and surrouding areas) that aren't heavily trafficked -- like most of East Elmhurst. In the future, rather than extrapolate what *you want to extrapolate* from someone's statements, you could try asking a question.

I get it. You're one of those people to whom mask wearing has become a cargo cult. There's nothing irresponsible about going outdoors and removing your mask when there aren't other people around. If you think and feel differently, since you can't control anyone's actions but your own and the guidelines from the governor are that you must wear a face covering outside only when you can't maintain a safe distance from other, I would suggest you just not go outside until you convince NY State to adopt your standard.

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 18, 2020, 07:21:53 AM
Quote
Along the walk we see it all, mask wearers, chin protectors, elbow protectors, hand accessories

if you don't you should have it at the ready for when someone passes you by or vice versa.

Also, I'm confused. If someone has their mask (or other face covering) pulled below their chin, or in their hand, are they not at the ready for putting on? It appears to me you're assuming that someone who explains to you why they aren't wearing a face covering at all times while outdoors and specifically on 34th Avenue - which they aren't required to do - doesn't have a face covering at the ready to put on.

Is that correct? If so, you might want to revisit the assumptions you're making. Masks pulled down under the chin can easily be pulled up. Ditto for bandannas and scarves. Some masks have neck tethers. I've modified some washable masks with yarn or string to create a neck tether. It's really helpful so you can remove your mask when others aren't around (and allow it to dry out since respiration through a mask makes it damp, making it less effective, which is what you don't want when you go out for a walk in an area where it's easy to avoid proximity with others, and will also come to a place where you want to put it on, like 37th Avenue or a stop at store to run an errand).
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: N00b on June 18, 2020, 10:18:07 AM
If someone is following the rules, then they are being responsible.



lol at this 3rd grade level understanding of civic responsibility.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 18, 2020, 04:41:21 PM
Quote
Also, I'm confused. If someone has their mask (or other face covering) pulled below their chin, or in their hand, are they not at the ready for putting on? It appears to me you're assuming that someone who explains to you why they aren't wearing a face covering at all times while outdoors and specifically on 34th Avenue - which they aren't required to do - doesn't have a face covering at the ready to put on.


if it wasn't clear from my initial post, that is exactly what i'm trying to figure out. i agree. having it on your chin is 'at the ready'

however - i see these people huff and puff and zoom past people, getting closer to them then 6ft - and they don't make an effort.

the mask is a token for these people. its like people were told to wear a mask, but need the explicit hand holding that tells them they also have to wear it to cover their nose and mouth.

why are you being so dense? i walk on 34th and unless alternate realities exist, we are seeing the same shit (unless you're walking only at 8AM, in which case, i'm not sure why you're arguing with me)

and as i said, i am no longer walking along 34th. stop making the suggestion as if it was revelatory. But that isn't because I don't enjoy the walk and the people watching associated. i'm annoyed at the inconsiderates who have ruined it for me and my family.

also i looked up your cargo cult phrase and i fail to see the superstition involved in wearing a mask. it's a good phrase, glad to have learned it. not sure why you think it applies to an assembly point where people are breathing heavily, sweating and not even making an effort to keep 6 ft apart.



Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Liz on June 19, 2020, 08:14:35 AM
Not surprised this has turned ugly although it was intended to be an open discussion initially from the way I read it.  Long before we were mandated to wear masks early in the recommendations, I was out one morning walking, no one else was out, I encountered a woman who was upset by my not wearing a mask even though we were about 12 feet apart.  I started wearing a mask all the time when I am out, because I don't want to be THAT person.  The one who makes anxious people more anxious.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 19, 2020, 08:21:16 AM
Quote
if it wasn't clear from my initial post, that is exactly what i'm trying to figure out. i agree. having it on your chin is 'at the ready'...
however - i see these people huff and puff and zoom past people, getting closer to them then 6ft - and they don't make an effort....the mask is a token for these people. its like people were told to wear a mask, but need the explicit hand holding that tells them they also have to wear it to cover their nose and mouth

That wasn't what your initial post asked.

Quote
I'm wondering if anyone here who choses to walk along the 34th Ave 'path' decides it's important enough to bring outside, put on their head, but not wear across their mouth and nose....And if you are one of those people, why would you do so along a path you're guaranteed to be close to people on, especially when you're panting like a dog on a run or zooming past on a bike?

People, including myself, who don't always wear their mask on 34th Avenue explained to you why they do so, and then you began to talk past people and, I think, intentionally misunderstand people. I think you did this for express purpose of being obnoxious.

Quote
why are you being so dense? i walk on 34th and unless alternate realities exist, we are seeing the same shit (unless you're walking only at 8AM, in which case, i'm not sure why you're arguing with me)

I'm not being dense at all. I think you are intentionally misunderstanding. Remember, you don't have to agree with me about my choice of mask wearing to understand the reasoning. I don't need to convince you of the the rightness of my perspective in order for you to have gained insight in to why someone does what was your initial ask.

As I've previously explained, you absolutely can get on to 34th Avenue on various times of day and have no problem keeping your distance from others. Peak times less so, so I avoid 34th Avenue at that time and leave it for the families of kids learning to ride a bike,

Now, there are definitely people who get too close - including people wearing masks. I've had pairs of runners throughout the neighborhood come up from behind me, split to get around me and both stay within a foot or two of me. That annoys me (and I think it would be rude behavior outside of an epidemic), but I also think the risk of infection from such an encounter is so low as to be negligible -- if that was a common transmission route I think 100% of New Yorkers tested would have antibodies. I suspect those people have the same perception as I do.

My annoyance at that comes from the lack of consideration it shows to others who are fearful, not my fear of catching Covid-19.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: 7 on June 19, 2020, 04:48:01 PM
If someone is following the rules, then they are being responsible.



lol at this 3rd grade level understanding of civic responsibility.

This 100%.

Following the "rules" is not sufficient to be responsible. Sometimes following the "rules" is not even necessary to be responsible, if the rules are wrong or are being abused.

The death count for Jackson Heights is still increasing (now at least 237) and if there are actions we could take that reduce the chance of unnecessary suffering then we should be taking them. Like wearing masks all the time.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: passthekimchi on June 19, 2020, 05:05:52 PM
Wear a mask properly, at all times, when outside. Full stop. Nothing to discuss or debate here. We have lost too many people in our community to this virus. The least you can do is properly wear a mask outside.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: lalochezia on June 19, 2020, 07:21:49 PM
Wear a mask properly, at all times, when outside. Full stop. Nothing to discuss or debate here. We have lost too many people in our community to this virus. The least you can do is properly wear a mask outside.

I'm a pro-mask and pro science person. I relentlessly argue with mouthbreathing anti-science imbeciles everywhere, and the laxening of restrictions by the feds, states and groups will absolutely result in the needless death and suffering of tens of thousands more americans.

 I'm for erring on the side of caution, even if that means restriction of freedoms. I'm for strict rules because society has shown it isn't mature or self-controlled enough to protect public health with voluntary rules.......and the rights of people not to die or be sickened by a communicable disease  outweigh the rights of people to be inconvenienced, even severely.   

...... and YET what you say is madness.

When outside, wear a mask at all times?

If I'm by myself in the middle of a park with no-one in 100 yards? On an empty street at 6am? In my own garden? On A balcony? What benefit does this provide?

There has to be judgement here or we become the caricatures that imbeciles paint us as.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 19, 2020, 08:07:21 PM
^^like I said, cargo cult.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 19, 2020, 09:42:21 PM
i think the phrase cargo cult is becoming your cargo cult.

no one said not to wear a mask when you're alone and away from others, and have control over that circumstance.

the bottom line is 34th street, unless you're out at 3PM, is an area designated for people to be out and walking.

you don't have control. you may think you do. you might think it's ok. i'm clearly not going to change your mind. I just don't understand why you think it's ok, considering it's been rammed down our throat that wearing the mask is not for our own safety but for the safety of others.

and it might not even be you who is a problem, but you clearly want it to be you. i have a problem with people like the family we encountered this morning, who were on the same side of 74th street as us, saw we were interested in getting away from them, and instead of feeling foolish for not wearing a mask, decided to try and talk to us. people are terrible, i don't know why you want to be one of them.

if this doesn't pertain to you, then stop responding to me. simple. we don't have to continue the back and forth. i assure you it's not just one person (you) on 34th ave that i'm having this issue with.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHResident on June 19, 2020, 10:43:02 PM
It's simple. Stay home.
If you don't stay home, keep a safe distance away from anyone with whom you don't share living space.
If you have to come into close proximity with someone, cover your face.
Why is this so hard for people to follow?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: gente on June 19, 2020, 11:36:50 PM
It's simple. Stay home.
If you don't stay home, keep a safe distance away from anyone with whom you don't share living space.
If you have to come into close proximity with someone, cover your face.
Why is this so hard for people to follow?

This really is the bottom line, word for word. For the life of me I will never understand why these very simple guidelines are so difficult for people to *temporarily* stick to. Tiny personal cost, massive social benefit.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: gente on June 19, 2020, 11:55:49 PM
I'm for erring on the side of caution, even if that means restriction of freedoms.

I'm with you all the way. Except for the framing. I see the caution not as a restriction of freedom, but as the protection of freedom. Small personal adjustments protect the freedom (read: health and life, rather than illness or death) of our neighbors. A neighborhood with spreading illness and death leads not to personal freedom, but restriction. Taking simple personal precautions protects both my neighbors' freedom and mine.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 20, 2020, 06:03:44 AM
Quote
no one said not to wear a mask when you're alone and away from others, and have control over that circumstance.

Actually, I did. If you are comfortable with that. Some people have heightened anxiety, and they should keep their masks on if it makes them feel better. Of course what you mean is no one has said wear a mask when you're alone and away from others, but that's exactly what has been posted above. Wearing a face covering at all times when outside includes when you are outside, alone, and away from others

Quote
the bottom line is 34th street, unless you're out at 3PM (sic), is an area designated for people to be out and walking.

So are sidewalks and parks. And let's keep in mind "out" for some people who aren't able to walk a lot means standing in place, sitting, and moving pretty slowly. They should be able to enjoy the outdoors just as much as the able bodied. Families should be able to let their kids learn how to ride a bike, draw with chalk, and play hopscotch in place.

I've been trying to post photos from yesterday at noon on 34th Avenue where there are hardly any people on the street. I've been unsuccessful at getting the file size small enough. (??) The perception that it's always chock-a-block just isn't reality. It definitely is heavily trafficked at some times of day, I agree, and that's why I think people like me who are able bodied, don't have kids with them, and out for physical activity would be wise to walk along the residential streets in less densely populated areas during those times.

The bottom line really is, know what the rules are, which are that people only have to cover their faces outside when they can't keep a safe distance from others. (I get it, 6 feet isn't a certainty for safety. But we have to pick a number and 6 it is. We pick numbers all the time as a society you can argue over, like age of consent, a speed limit, etc.) The other bottom line is that people are clearly garbage at judging what 6 feet looks like, and other people don't care about wearing the mask. We should control what we can control, which is ourselves.

I'm not insensitive to the fear. I lost someone, and I was ill. I was very scared to venture outdoors for a bit -- out of fear that even though I followed the quarantine guidelines, the recommendations have been wrong in the past so what if they were wrong about the timeline and I was still infectious? So I erred on the side of caution and quarantined longer than the recommendation from the CDC.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: francis on June 20, 2020, 02:43:46 PM
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza. Up to 80% of test positive persons remain symptom free. The mortality rate in the US, UK, and Sweden are the same as a strong influenza season. If you wear a mask, chances are  you reduce your "herd" immunity.  There is no scientific evidence that mask are effective for healthy asymptomatic persons and that wearing a mask may interfere with normal respiration.  The report list about 30 points regarding COVID.  I especially am concerned when I see small children wearing mask and wonder how much damage is being done only form a health perspective but from a developmental point of view.  Facial expressions are a critical part of language learning and development.  A smile from a stranger, a grimace, a  frown, a look of anticipation...I can go on..... all carry meaning. Children growing up without seeing the faces of those around them are sure to suffer the most regarding their ability to perceive nuanced  information.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Benoit on June 20, 2020, 02:49:17 PM
I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of Fauci’s mouth. He’s a holdover from the Obama administration.  I never wear a mask, except when required by a private business.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on June 20, 2020, 03:20:53 PM
He's actually a holdover from the Reagan administration. but i know the former Republican Party has disavowed Reagan because he was such a raging leftist. not a conservative like Clinton donor Dementia Donny.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on June 20, 2020, 03:29:57 PM
it is good to see people outing themselves as mask-eschewers, though. since 95 percent of the people i see on an average day are masked, it's a little like caller ID :)
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: 7 on June 20, 2020, 03:36:16 PM
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza.

Based on 237+ deaths in Jackson Heights (11372) so far and a population of around 66,000, we already have a 0.35% lethality rate, if you assume 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected.

But it's unlikely that 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected. If only 20% has been infected (the NYC average antibody rate) then the lethality rate in Jackson Heights is more like 1.75%.

The real answer is probably somewhere in between, maybe 1% lethality rate. But 0.1% is clearly wrong.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on June 20, 2020, 05:27:23 PM
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store. The most current immunological and serological medical research completed by the SWISS POLICY REASEARCH  center states that there is a 0.1% lethality rate for COVID, same as a strong seasonal influenza.

Based on 237+ deaths in Jackson Heights (11372) so far and a population of around 66,000, we already have a 0.35% lethality rate, if you assume 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected.

But it's unlikely that 100% of Jackson Heights has been infected. If only 20% has been infected (the NYC average antibody rate) then the lethality rate in Jackson Heights is more like 1.75%.

The real answer is probably somewhere in between, maybe 1% lethality rate. But 0.1% is clearly wrong.

To add to that, I'm not sure why anyone would only want to look at the lethality rate of this disease. There are many people who have been sick who are left with lasting chronic health issues. Also, this is called a novel (new) disease because it's new and there's quite a bit left to discover and understand.

Virus Survivors Could Suffer Severe Health Effects for Years (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-19-s-health-effects-can-last-long-after-virus-is-gone)

Not wearing a mask because of possibly erroneous beliefs (and cherry picking which study about masks to read) is selfish IMO.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHResident on June 20, 2020, 05:54:34 PM
The Covid-19 mortality rate is much higher than that of influenza. The influenza numbers are inflated with projections. In a typical influenza season in the United States confirmed deaths range between 10,000 and 20,000.  The higher numbers you've read about are projections based on the death rate during the flu season versus the death rate the rest of the year. The 118,000 current deaths reported in the US are confirmed Covid-19 tested deaths.  This is in 3 months versus the year long total of 10,000 to 20,000 for the last two flu seasons.
Compare apples to apples.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: KGDHP on June 21, 2020, 06:55:47 AM
For anyone who's interested, Gothamist added a lot of new information/statistics to their Coronavirus tracker.
https://gothamist.com/news/coronavirus-statistics-tracking-epidemic-new-york

Probably the most interesting chart that I hadn't seen was this updated map, that tracks new cases, by neighborhood, just for the past 2 weeks (versus culmulative).
https://covidinteractivesny.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/new_cases_map.html

Jackson Heights (11372) reported 79 new cases over the span of the past 2 weeks.

Given where we were in April, we've come a long way! 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHResident on June 21, 2020, 07:37:45 AM
Based on Gothamist numbers, 212,061 people in New York City have tested positive and 22,244 have died or 10.4%.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: palomita on June 21, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
I never wear a mask in public, unless required by a store.... There is no scientific evidence that mask are effective for healthy asymptomatic persons and that wearing a mask may interfere with normal respiration.  The report list about 30 points regarding COVID.  I especially am concerned when I see small children wearing mask and wonder how much damage is being done only form a health perspective but from a developmental point of view.  Facial expressions are a critical part of language learning and development.  A smile from a stranger, a grimace, a  frown, a look of anticipation...I can go on..... all carry meaning. Children growing up without seeing the faces of those around them are sure to suffer the most regarding their ability to perceive nuanced  information.

I have so many thoughts about this conversation I don't even know where to begin.  But I'll try.

First, I am a physician and have been working in an inpatient hospital setting throughout this crisis.  I, along with literally 100% of my colleagues across all disciplines from doctors to nurses to environmental services and food services staff, wear a mask for an entire 12 hour shift at a time.  Sometimes I even wear 2 masks at a time!  A surgical mask over an N95 so that the N95 can be reused multiple times.  We can breathe in them, they do not interfere with "normal respiration," and the worst I have suffered is an itchy face and some attractive mask-shaped acne.  The idea that masks are somehow dangerous for the average person is a bogus pseudo-science argument, and if you truly have a contraindication to wearing a mask you better hope that everyone around you is wearing one because your contraindication puts you in a high-risk group for COVID complications.  Just as immunocompromised people who cannot get vaccines need those around them to be vaccinated to protect them, if you have a medical condition which prevents mask use or believe your personal mask use endangers your health then you best be trying to convince everyone ELSE to wear one to protect you.  If you do not have a true contraindication then a mask is at worst an annoying inconvenience.  My patients are women giving birth and they wear masks to protect the team caring for them.  If someone can push a baby out of their body wearing a mask, surely you can wear one to take a leisurely walk outdoors.

Second, if you are willing to wear a mask to patronize a private business that requires it, then you are able to wear a mask.  You are willing to ignore your personal belief that masks are useless or harmful in order to access a service that you want.  Why are you not willing to make the same sacrifice to give your neighbors and community some piece of mind, even if you don't believe it's effective?  People abide by "no shirt no shoes no service" even though going into a coffee shop in just your shorts isn't actually dangerous, it just grosses people out.

Third, as a parent of small children I am more concerned about them losing 1+ years of school and real life socialization with peers/adults other than their parents than their ability to interpret the facial expressions of strangers on the street.  You know what will get them back in school and into playdates with their friends faster?  Universal mask wearing and deference to scientific experts in planning our next steps.  I am not discounting the developmental damage that this crisis may have on them, but the ability to read facial expressions does not seem as critical to me as the ability to resume real-life in-person friendships, not to mention continuing to have living grandparents.

Obviously I believe the data that universal mask wearing is effective in reducing asymptomatic spread.  But even if you don't believe it, the harm to you in wearing a mask (even if you are right that they don't work) is a minor inconvenience.  The harm to your community in not wearing a mask if you are wrong is devastating.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: passthekimchi on June 21, 2020, 11:45:35 AM
Palomita, First off thank you for all you and other healthcare professionals have done during this difficult time. We are forever grateful to your service and sacrifice. Also, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight with the community to help keep us safer.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: hagsrus on June 21, 2020, 05:15:38 PM
Noticed a lot of noses uncovered when I was out on Friday, far more than I ever noticed before.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dotley on June 21, 2020, 07:29:21 PM
I sent an email to governor cuomo asking him to please make it mandatory to wear a mask when you go outside. He had said in one of his last press briefings he was considering it. We know from past experience waiting is dangerous
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Liz on June 22, 2020, 07:51:36 AM
I hope he does.  Already seeing more people without masks on the subway and streets.  And it's day one of phase 2
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHResident on June 25, 2020, 07:19:24 PM
Took a walk on 37th Ave for the first time in a couple of weeks. Many pedestrians wearing masks pulled down below their nose or on their chin. There was a cartoon in Queens Crap the other day that compared this behavior to walking around with your fly open. The image was too graphic to post here, but you can probably find it if you're not offended.
Many were walking around without masks.
One older woman without a mask was making strange sounds like she was a sheep.  I realized that she was probably implying that I was a sheep for wearing a mask. But who is actually the sheep? The one following the advice of health professionals or the one following the advice of conspiracy theorists?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on June 25, 2020, 09:03:02 PM
Took a walk on 37th Ave for the first time in a couple of weeks. Many pedestrians wearing masks pulled down below their nose or on their chin. There was a cartoon in Queens Crap the other day that compared this behavior to walking around with your fly open. The image was too graphic to post here, but you can probably find it if you're not offended.
Many were walking around without masks.
One older woman without a mask was making strange sounds like she was a sheep.  I realized that she was probably implying that I was a sheep for wearing a mask. But who is actually the sheep? The one following the advice of health professionals or the one following the advice of conspiracy theorists?

Pretty sure I encountered the same woman a few weeks ago, unless there are two of them. She didn't make sheep noises when she passed me, but she called me an idiot and a sheep, among some other choice terms, and told me "you can't catch the virus outside." I found out after asking around that she's a "neighborhood character" and consistently gets into mean confrontations. I'm hoping there's only one like that in the area. It would be a shame if there's more than one or even several who would engage in that kind of behavior.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on June 26, 2020, 10:17:42 PM
id be more concerned w the masses not properly wearing masks. she sounds like a bit of fun to be honest, someone worth berating.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dd_nyc on June 29, 2020, 08:31:19 AM
My mother died of COVID-19 and I'm immunocompromised (among them chronic respiratory probs, and yet I survive wearing a mask).  Going outdoors among an antipathetic populace who are unable to put a little something on for their travels, with runners and cyclers passing close from the side, has made it a situation for me to get prescriptions, visit doctors etc.  It shouldn't have to be, just as Mom didn't have to die, and our numbers would be so much lower if only these did the right thing and thought about others.  But of course, unless someone drops dead right there it won't happen :(

It is a social thing, a vanity thing. They are embarrassed. Are doctors embarrassed too? It is an illusion  to feel better about themselves without thinking of consequences they have no control over.

Here is what I saw:

I was in a takeout place last week and some large character with a chin guard stepped out with his purchase. On the sidewalk he ran into an acquaintance: a younger, smaller guy in a mask. The moment they chatted the younger guy pulled his mask below his nose. By the end of 2 minutes they went separate ways, only this time both were wearing chin guards.

Wouldn't it be nice not to wear a mask? Some people can't wear anything anymore - ever again. People every day in this city are diagnosed. And let's not forget where COVID-19 activity has been most prevalent: here. Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, East Elmhurst...

Don't tell me you're sorry for my Mother's death. It would be disingenuous and not the point anyway.
Title: Good mask wearing in Jackson Heights
Post by: Cookie0121 on July 06, 2020, 06:54:20 PM
Today a friend of mine who lives in Long Island met me for lunch outside at Jax Inn. She used to live in Jackson Heights so we drove around a bit. She was very impressed when she saw almost everyone here wearing masks. She said not many people in Long Island are wearing them.

Good going Jackson Heights, we should be proud of our neighborhood.
Title: Re: Good mask wearing in Jackson Heights
Post by: dssjh on July 06, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
i've been impressed about how well people are doing here. i haven't ventured far, but friends of mine who live in Brooklyn have said our neighborhood is a lot more compliant than most.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 07, 2020, 12:17:43 PM
I see very few people not wearing masks outside where it's not possible to maintain a fair distance from others, or in stores. What I do see A LOT of is people wearing masks incorrectly, like below their noses. Apparently they don't think their nostrils are used to inhale and exhale? I don't get it. It demonstrates a flagrant disregard for those around you. Especially the workers at the stores.

I lost someone to Covid, but I'm pretty sure that person's exposure came before we all got the guidance about wearing masks even if we weren't actively sick. So, as angry as I am, I'm not really angry at any particular individual who may have spread the illness. But we know better now, so I do get angry at people who can't find a mask that covers their nose. Maybe stop buying them from the dollar store FPS.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: hfm on July 07, 2020, 06:51:30 PM
Part of it that makes me a little angry is people in my building that don't wear their mask until they get outside. It's WAY MORE LIKELY that you will transmit your asymptomatic infection to others in the common closed area of the building than outside. I think most research puts it at 20x more likely to spread the virus to others indoors than outside. Especially since it's been proven to hang in the air for a long time indoors. Obviously this doesn't mean its a good idea to be shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of people yelling and screaming outside, or talking to someone close by for a long period if they might be infected.

We've done so well so far, I'd hate to see people losing it and being less cautious and starting this problem up all over again by not maintaining disclipline of WEARING A DAMN MASK. It's NOT HARD and it's NOT HARMFUL TO YOU. Suck it up and show the least amount of caring for others in the community.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on July 07, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
it's actually mandated inside our building. i occasionally roll my eyes at the abundance of house rules, but this one i can get behind.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on July 07, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
it's actually mandated inside our building. i occasionally roll my eyes at the abundance of house rules, but this one i can get behind.

We also have a new rule requiring this. Warning for the first offense, then a fine, I think $50.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 08, 2020, 06:30:36 AM
Quote
Part of it that makes me a little angry is people in my building that don't wear their mask until they get outside.

There's a good chance people not wearing a mask in the building is what killed my family member. We'll never know precisely what did it, but once we got over the idea that a contaminated surface we brought to her (groceries, bottle of wine, TP left at the door) did it, we realized it was far more likely it was a trip to the garbage shoot, an elevator ride downstairs to check mail, an ill-advised answering of the door if someone without a mask knocked on it.

I would suggest talking to your managing agent or board if your building is self-managed to clarify to residents WHY everyone is required to wear a mask in the building. What you have described is profoundly ignorant. Ignorance was understandable in March, but reprehensible today.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Lilybell on July 08, 2020, 10:19:12 AM
I'm sorry for your loss, Capt. 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 08, 2020, 03:55:42 PM
Unfortunately surgical/cloth masks are not 100% Corona proof.

Yes, they decrease the risk.

But I think tests have shown there is still a % chance of catching the virus even when both folks are masked.

N95 respirator masks are the only masks that keep folks completely safe is what I have gathered. And people don't wear them in the streets...only in hospitals etc.

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: r on July 08, 2020, 05:33:52 PM
This thread is so huge now... trying to summarize...

- Even crappy masks make it harder to spread. So everyone should at least be wearing crappy masks when outside their home.

- Crappy masks don't protect you from catching it (very much), but an N95 mask (or R95, P95, KN95, KF94, P2, etc) will help you from catching it, even if nobody else is wearing masks. You can find some of these on eBay.

- The virus can hang around in the air for a while (or be sucked through the air by air conditioning or fans), even after the spreader has left.

- Avoid all indoor and underground spaces when possible.

- Open multiple windows if you are in a car.

- If you live in an apartment, consider blocking the bottom of your front door so that air from the hallway can't enter your apartment.
 
- Lose weight if you are overweight. Besides affecting older people more, the virus also affects higher BMI more.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 08, 2020, 07:09:53 PM
Quote
Unfortunately surgical/cloth masks are not 100% Corona proof.

Yes, they decrease the risk.

But I think tests have shown there is still a % chance of catching the virus even when both folks are masked.

N95 respirator masks are the only masks that keep folks completely safe is what I have gathered. And people don't wear them in the streets...only in hospitals etc.

It's not and never has been about eliminating all risk. Like most everything in life, there's a risk. We could reduce fatalities on the interstate highways by reducing the speed limit to 35 mph, but then you have to weight the impact on the economy, people's time, etc. We could require restaurants to only serve hard cooked eggs to even further reduce the risk of food borne illnesses undercooked eggs, but for most people a bad egg is probably just going to give you at worst, a bad case of a stomach bug and who wants overly cooked eggs all the time for that?

Wearing a face cover is kind of a minor inconvenience I think in light of how much it can reduce the transmission of a easily contracted respiratory illness. I sorely wish the guidance to wear a face covering had come about a month earlier than it did.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 08, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
@Lilybell - Thank you. It's been months of processing difficult emotions.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHResident on July 10, 2020, 10:25:02 AM
I find all of the masks uncomfortable and inconvenient. They make my nose run and make it hard to breathe especially if I'm exerting myself at all. Nevertheless, I where them whenever I'm in public outside my home or car.
I have to discard the surgical masks after each use. The KN95 masks I wear only when a crowded indoor environment, like shopping and might be able to wear for a couple of days an hour at a time, but these are the most uncomfortable. The cloth mask is the most comfortable and probably the least effective but I have made the cloth masks a little more effective by inserting a piece of a Filtrete virus and allergen filter that is supposed to be more than 99% effective, but of course it's still behind cloth which can absorb particles.  The cloth masks can be washed but some of them are cheaply made and will be less effective with each washing. Hand washing works best for me.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 10, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
The real trouble is that because of mixed messages from leaders...and the lack of 100% certain knowledge about Corona since it is new....

Random folks thus "become" experts.  And play that role. Some quite dictatorially...

Leading to even more confused messages.

An example of this is that De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

While others are screaming to wear masks always. And not let noses peak out. Even when folks are socially distanced outside.

Opposing messages abound.






Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on July 10, 2020, 11:32:37 AM
nicely-applied use of "screaming" to indicate disagreement with the (implicitly unreasonable) second stance, and imply personal expertise on the topic by a random person.

kudos -- in all seriousness -- on deft writing style.



Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: N00b on July 10, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
Unfortunately surgical/cloth masks are not 100% Corona proof.

Yes, they decrease the risk.

But I think tests have shown there is still a % chance of catching the virus even when both folks are masked.

N95 respirator masks are the only masks that keep folks completely safe is what I have gathered. And people don't wear them in the streets...only in hospitals etc.

what...is your point?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 10, 2020, 12:10:19 PM
Unfortunately surgical/cloth masks are not 100% Corona proof.

Yes, they decrease the risk.

But I think tests have shown there is still a % chance of catching the virus even when both folks are masked.

N95 respirator masks are the only masks that keep folks completely safe is what I have gathered. And people don't wear them in the streets...only in hospitals etc.

what...is your point?

The point is there is no 100% Corona-proof situation with non N95 masks.

And we must continue, of course, but accept that fact.

For example, there is a % chance of getting run over by a bus when a person leaves their apartment. But we all accept that risk...and continue our lives.

The same applies with Corona.

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: r on July 10, 2020, 04:24:13 PM
While others are screaming to wear masks always. And not let noses peak out.

FWIW, the correct way to breathe is by breathing with your nose, not your mouth.

Some people who don't breathe with their nose actually have trouble exercising or sleeping because of that.

(That is also probably why the COVID tests swab your nose...)
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 10, 2020, 07:22:44 PM
While others are screaming to wear masks always. And not let noses peak out.

FWIW, the correct way to breathe is by breathing with your nose, not your mouth.

Some people who don't breathe with their nose actually have trouble exercising or sleeping because of that.

(That is also probably why the COVID tests swab your nose...)

Like I mentioned. Random folks set themselves up as experts. Including on how to breathe. And there are opposing views to everything. From a quick search on the internet...

--------------------------------------

Healthy people use both their nose and their mouth to breathe. Breathing through the mouth only becomes necessary when you have nasal congestion due to allergies or a cold. Also, when you are exercising strenuously, mouth breathing can help get oxygen to your muscles faster.

-------------------------------------
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: r on July 10, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
Breathing through the mouth only becomes necessary when you have nasal congestion due to allergies or a cold.

i.e. you should normally be breathing with your nose.

That is also why a mask covering the nose is important.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 11, 2020, 07:01:18 AM
Quote
De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

Can you show us where De Blasio (or any leader) has stated it's not possible to wear a mask while simultaneously keeping a social distance from others? Why would anyone make such an assertion anyway? It's absurd.

Quote
While others are screaming to wear masks always.

Can you show us where any leader has screamed that we must wear masks at all times.

Quote
And not let noses peak out.

Considering that about 20-30% of the people I see in stores and on busy streets in the neighborhood wearing a mask wear it incorrectly, leaders should be adamant in getting the message out that the two holes in your face that compromise your nose are part of your respiratory system and should therefore be covered by a mask. How is this "screaming" about how to properly wear a mask a problem?

Quote
Even when folks are socially distanced outside.

Show us where a leader has stated you should wear a mask outside even when no one else is near you.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 11, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Quote
De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

Can you show us where De Blasio (or any leader) has stated it's not possible to wear a mask while simultaneously keeping a social distance from others? Why would anyone make such an assertion anyway? It's absurd.

Quote
While others are screaming to wear masks always.

Can you show us where any leader has screamed that we must wear masks at all times.

Quote
And not let noses peak out.

Considering that about 20-30% of the people I see in stores and on busy streets in the neighborhood wearing a mask wear it incorrectly, leaders should be adamant in getting the message out that the two holes in your face that compromise your nose are part of your respiratory system and should therefore be covered by a mask. How is this "screaming" about how to properly wear a mask a problem?

Quote
Even when folks are socially distanced outside.

Show us where a leader has stated you should wear a mask outside even when no one else is near you.

No. You misunderstood my post. Random folks are telling people what to do. And often, it's mixed messages.

Of course you can wear a mask AND social distance.

Really, you can wear a spaceman suit and socially distance...as well.

But Cuomo is saying this... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-masks-face-coverings-in-public-executive-order-governor-andrew-cuomo/

And I've decided to listen to him.

Info from random folks on the internet might not be the smartest move. 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 11, 2020, 09:02:05 AM
My take is also that arguing with random folks on the internet is also possibly not the smartest choice.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 12, 2020, 06:55:06 AM
Quote
No. You misunderstood my post. Random folks are telling people what to do. And often, it's mixed messages.

I don't think I misunderstand your post. Here is what you wrote:

Quote
The real trouble is that because of mixed messages from leaders...An example of this is that De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

We can certainly agree that random people who barely passed high school science and question the guidance experts in infectious disease feel empowered to tell others what to do (i.e. you must wear a mask at all times outside, even when no else is near you!). But where are and what are the mixed messages from leaders you posted about? And what are the mixed messages presently? What is Cuomo saying today that is different from what other leaders are saying today (or since late March)? In New York at least (we know other governors have been dismissive of mask wearing, but they are changing their tune now that the virus is impacting their states).

The only confusion that occurred about wearing a mask was back in March when the CDC and others following the CDC's lead were putting out the message that masks should be reserved for the sick and health care workers. Even the guidance to wear a face covering in public came late, which I believe likely contributed to my loved one contracting the virus.

Please understand that many more people died in the city because of the delay in changing the message to "wear a face covering when you can't socially distance, even if you aren't feeling ill," and that this isn't a topic to try to get points on to "own" people you consider internet adversaries.

There are real people behind these posts, and many people in this neighborhood (and likely users of this board) have suffered terrible personal losses that we believe can be traced back to lousy guidance back in March at the federal level, which influenced the state and local response. This is a topic to have compassion for users about, not one to focus on a need to win an internet argument about.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 12, 2020, 08:32:02 AM
Quote
No. You misunderstood my post. Random folks are telling people what to do. And often, it's mixed messages.

I don't think I misunderstand your post. Here is what you wrote:

Quote
The real trouble is that because of mixed messages from leaders...An example of this is that De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

We can certainly agree that random people who barely passed high school science and question the guidance experts in infectious disease feel empowered to tell others what to do (i.e. you must wear a mask at all times outside, even when no else is near you!). But where are and what are the mixed messages from leaders you posted about? And what are the mixed messages presently? What is Cuomo saying today that is different from what other leaders are saying today (or since late March)? In New York at least (we know other governors have been dismissive of mask wearing, but they are changing their tune now that the virus is impacting their states).

The only confusion that occurred about wearing a mask was back in March when the CDC and others following the CDC's lead were putting out the message that masks should be reserved for the sick and health care workers. Even the guidance to wear a face covering in public came late, which I believe likely contributed to my loved one contracting the virus.

Please understand that many more people died in the city because of the delay in changing the message to "wear a face covering when you can't socially distance, even if you aren't feeling ill," and that this isn't a topic to try to get points on to "own" people you consider internet adversaries.

There are real people behind these posts, and many people in this neighborhood (and likely users of this board) have suffered terrible personal losses that we believe can be traced back to lousy guidance back in March at the federal level, which influenced the state and local response. This is a topic to have compassion for users about, not one to focus on a need to win an internet argument about.

Please do not assume that I do not have folks who have died due to COVID in my family or have not been affected by the death of parents of my friends.

Having folks who died by COVID still doesn't make us experts on COVID... or give us the moral high ground to berate others.

 
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: r on July 12, 2020, 01:30:30 PM
you must wear a mask at all times outside, even when no else is near you!

There are several reasons why this is a good idea but the simplest is that you should not touch your mask after putting it on. Otherwise you risk contaminating your hands, and then contaminating anything else you touch. Unless people are washing their hands everytime they touch their mask, then it is risky to keep adjusting it.

This also makes even outdoor dining risky eg many people might not realise that they need to wash their hands again *after* taking off their mask to eat. And again each time they take it off.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on July 12, 2020, 05:01:00 PM
you've made it abundantly clear -- in dozens, if not hundreds of posts -- that there's no room on the higher ground for anyone but you. it's quite amusing, really.

Quote
No. You misunderstood my post. Random folks are telling people what to do. And often, it's mixed messages.


Please do not assume that I do not have folks who have died due to COVID in my family or have not been affected by the death of parents of my friends.

Having folks who died by COVID still doesn't make us experts on COVID... or give us the moral high ground to berate others.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 12, 2020, 06:06:35 PM
As always, I will ignore your insults.

you've made it abundantly clear -- in dozens, if not hundreds of posts -- that there's no room on the higher ground for anyone but you. it's quite amusing, really.


[/quote]

Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 12, 2020, 07:30:57 PM
Quote
Please do not assume that I do not have folks who have died due to COVID in my family or have not been affected by the death of parents of my friends.

Having folks who died by COVID still doesn't make us experts on COVID... or give us the moral high ground to berate others.

I have done no such thing.

As previously state, I have asked you to please understand that this isn't a topic to try to get points on to "own" people you consider internet adversaries and that there are real people behind these posts.

Once again, you wrote:

Quote
The real trouble is that because of mixed messages from leaders...An example of this is that De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

I've asked three times, what mixed messages from leaders are you referring to? And which leaders?




Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 12, 2020, 07:43:47 PM
Quote
There are several reasons why this is a good idea but the simplest is that you should not touch your mask after putting it on.

Maybe it's a good idea in theory but it's not very practical. You wear the mask to protect others, not so much for yourself. You are protected by others wearing masks. You wash your hands often because you know others (and yourself) aren't perfect.

I went on a hike today. Put a mask on to exit my apartment. Once I got outside I removed the mask. Drove up to a park and had the mask at the ready should any other hikers get close (as happens on narrow trails on a beautiful weekend day). Took it on and off a number of times throughout the day as I crossed paths with hikers on the trail, to eat, to drink. Drove to a town to get a bite to eat. Mask off in the car, on as I entered the establishment, off at the table, on to use the restroom, off back at the table, on to exit the establishment, off back in the car. On again to enter the apartment building.

I suppose I could have worn a mask for 8 solid hours, but since I wasn't close to anyone during most of that time, and what we are learning is that surface contamination isn't as big a risk as we worried a couple of months ago, it's just not very practical. The greatest risk seems to be enclosed spaces with others, which is why even when I'm upstate, I'm still avoiding indoor dining.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: abcdefghijk on July 12, 2020, 07:54:57 PM
Quote
Please do not assume that I do not have folks who have died due to COVID in my family or have not been affected by the death of parents of my friends.

Having folks who died by COVID still doesn't make us experts on COVID... or give us the moral high ground to berate others.

I have done no such thing.

As previously state, I have asked you to please understand that this isn't a topic to try to get points on to "own" people you consider internet adversaries and that there are real people behind these posts.

Once again, you wrote:

Quote
The real trouble is that because of mixed messages from leaders...An example of this is that De Blasio (etc) is saying wear masks when social distancing is impossible.

I've asked three times, what mixed messages from leaders are you referring to? And which leaders?

Ok.

The major mixed message (Cuomo, De Blasio)  is TO WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is not possible.

In other words, TO NOT WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is possible.

Meanwhile, folks are yelling to wear a mask...even when 6 feet social distancing is present.

These are definitely mixed messages.

As for Pence and Trump, who are our leaders, after all, whether we like it or not, their messages concerning masks are ALWAYS confusing.

In this neighborhood I have been yelled at twice.

Once, a person yelled at me for WEARING a mask, hissing that didn't I know masks don't work?

Another time, my mask had slipped and a passerby yelled to fasten it. Tho at least 6 feet was definitely the distance between me and anyone else.

My take is that these two random angry folks...and no doubt both consider themselves EXPERTS...should be placed in a room to duke it out.

And leave me out of it.







Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on July 12, 2020, 08:34:57 PM
Cuomo's mask message is not confusing.

http://www.jacksonheightslife.com/community/index.php?topic=20002.msg100008#msg100008

This is what Cuomo had to say about mask wearing and social distancing:

"If you're going to be in public and you cannot maintain social distancing, then have a mask and put the mask on when you are not in socially distanced places," The Governor said Wednesday. "You're walking down the street, you're walking down the street alone? Great. You're now at an intersection and there are people in the intersection and you're going to be in proximity to other people? Put the mask on."

https://cbs6albany.com/news/coronavirus/faqs-about-new-yorks-face-mask-in-public-executive-order-now-in-effect
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 13, 2020, 06:23:59 AM
Quote
The major mixed message (Cuomo, De Blasio)  is TO WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is not possible.

In other words, TO NOT WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is possible.

Meanwhile, folks are yelling to wear a mask...even when 6 feet social distancing is present.

These are definitely mixed messages.

As for Pence and Trump, who are our leaders, after all, whether we like it or not, their messages concerning masks are ALWAYS confusing.

Okay, first let's establish that random people yelling at you on the street for wearing a mask/not wearing a mask aren't leaders, so they don't count in your posting about leaders sending mixed messages.

So what you're really trying to say is that leaders in New York have been clear and consistent in their messaging about mask wearing (wear a mask outside when in situations where you can't maintain a fair distance from other) at least since mid-April, but at the federal level the messaging on mask wearing has been inconsistent and confusing (Fauci and the actual experts say wear them when you're around other people, Trump/Pence don't even wear them in public until recently)?

If that's what you're saying, I agree with you. It's only confusing to those who give weight to proven ignoramuses who eschew things like evidence and science, which unfortunately is not an insignificant number.

Quote
In this neighborhood I have been yelled at twice.

Once, a person yelled at me for WEARING a mask, hissing that didn't I know masks don't work?

Another time, my mask had slipped and a passerby yelled to fasten it. Tho at least 6 feet was definitely the distance between me and anyone else.

Yeah, I've experienced the same thing, more than twice. I've had people yell at me from across the street that I'm a terrible person for having my mask or bandanna around my neck when the other person and I the only people on the block. The vitriol has been pretty bad at times and during the early grieving process that it was really hurtful. I try to remember now that most folks acting that way were operating out of fear and stress. Though that's no excuse for some of the nastier comments.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 13, 2020, 06:39:09 AM
Quote
The major mixed message (Cuomo, De Blasio)  is TO WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is not possible.

In other words, TO NOT WEAR MASKS WHEN 6 FEET SOCIAL DISTANCING is possible.

Meanwhile, folks are yelling to wear a mask...even when 6 feet social distancing is present.

These are definitely mixed messages.

As for Pence and Trump, who are our leaders, after all, whether we like it or not, their messages concerning masks are ALWAYS confusing.

Okay, first let's establish that random people yelling at you on the street for wearing a mask/not wearing a mask aren't leaders, so they don't count in your posting about leaders sending mixed messages.

So what you're really trying to say is that leaders in New York have been clear and consistent in their messaging about mask wearing (wear a mask outside when in situations where you can't maintain a fair distance from other) at least since mid-April, but at the federal level the messaging on mask wearing has been inconsistent and confusing (Fauci and the actual experts say wear them when you're around other people, Trump/Pence don't even wear them in public until recently)?

If that's what you're saying, I agree with you. It's only confusing to those who give weight to proven ignoramuses who eschew things like evidence and science, which unfortunately is not an insignificant number.

Quote
In this neighborhood I have been yelled at twice.

Once, a person yelled at me for WEARING a mask, hissing that didn't I know masks don't work?

Another time, my mask had slipped and a passerby yelled to fasten it. Tho at least 6 feet was definitely the distance between me and anyone else.

Yeah, I've experienced the same thing, more than twice. I've had snide comments directed at me for wearing a mask, but far more frequently in this neighborhood I've had people yell at me from across the street that I'm a terrible person for having my mask or bandanna around my neck when the other person and I the only people on the block. The vitriol has been pretty bad at times and during the early grieving process it was really hurtful. I try to remember now that most folks acting that way were operating out of fear and stress. Though that's no excuse for some of the nastier comments.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on July 13, 2020, 03:05:53 PM
i would argue most parts of queens / the 5 boroughs are tough places to be able to remain 6 ft apart from each other.

that's where the confusion lies. some people agree, some don't.

imo the message should be: 'going outside? wear a mask. nyc is too crowded to remain 6 ft apart from people'

from there people can use their own judgement. ie, if im walking down the street at 3PM i'm likely running into no one.

the problem is that ppl have their masks at the ready but then pass by someone / a bunch of people and mean to put it on, but since they've hardly worn a mask in all their years of living, they don't have the reflex to put it on their mouth and nose.

once again, 34th ave is not the place to not wear a mask. i've yet to see a runner ducking each and every person walking down the street in favor of their straight line, so it should be mandatory that everyone does.

i imagine some won't agree.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: r on July 13, 2020, 04:10:06 PM
Agreed.

From Cuomo's perspective (living in Westchester and working in Albany), the rule probably makes more sense to him.

E.g. Maybe Cuomo really does walk down empty streets quite often, and can see other people coming from a mile away.

But it doesn't make sense in NYC to take off your mask outside. And especially not in Jackson Heights, which is one of the densest areas in NYC.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: bellabella on July 13, 2020, 06:36:08 PM
Has anyone notice the large amounts of folks in travers not wearing masks? On Saturday, while walking my dog there was a large group of people doing Zumba in the small tennis court area. The instructor was not wearing a mask and most participants weren't either. They were extremely close to one another as well. I don't understand how people can be so careless and think this is ok during a pandemic. Our area was hit hard and I personally have lost loved ones and neighbors. I HATE wearing a mask but do so to protect myself, my family and others.  If this continues we will undoubtedly have a second wave here.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on July 13, 2020, 07:19:53 PM
i would argue most parts of queens / the 5 boroughs are tough places to be able to remain 6 ft apart from each other.

that's where the confusion lies. some people agree, some don't.

imo the message should be: 'going outside? wear a mask. nyc is too crowded to remain 6 ft apart from people'

from there people can use their own judgement. ie, if im walking down the street at 3PM i'm likely running into no one.

the problem is that ppl have their masks at the ready but then pass by someone / a bunch of people and mean to put it on, but since they've hardly worn a mask in all their years of living, they don't have the reflex to put it on their mouth and nose.

once again, 34th ave is not the place to not wear a mask. i've yet to see a runner ducking each and every person walking down the street in favor of their straight line, so it should be mandatory that everyone does.

i imagine some won't agree.

I agree that in our area, walking on the sidewalks means you should wear a mask 100% of the time. But I still don't think Cuomo's message is confusing. He's a governor of an entire state, some of which includes huge amounts of farmland and emptiness. He's not an elected official of a small, densely populated neighborhood. So his instructions make sense. If you live in a densely populated area like ours, you should know you're going to pass people on the sidewalk repeatedly and without warning, and therefore wear your mask all the time.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: itsit on July 13, 2020, 08:34:05 PM
Has anyone notice the large amounts of folks in travers not wearing masks? On Saturday, while walking my dog there was a large group of people doing Zumba in the small tennis court area. The instructor was not wearing a mask and most participants weren't either. They were extremely close to one another as well. I don't understand how people can be so careless and think this is ok during a pandemic. Our area was hit hard and I personally have lost loved ones and neighbors. I HATE wearing a mask but do so to protect myself, my family and others.  If this continues we will undoubtedly have a second wave here.
I saw that Zumba class too and it was very crowded. People were very into it and the music was fun but the whole thing seemed DANGEROUS! Why was it allowed in the already crowded park. Not sure who is monitoring the park but this is a recipe for disaster- the one called the second wave.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 14, 2020, 10:43:23 AM
Quote
i would argue most parts of queens / the 5 boroughs are tough places to be able to remain 6 ft apart from each other.

It's not hard at all in this neighborhood off the commercial streets to maintain 6 feet from each other. Especially if you head on over north of Northern Blvd, where the neighborhood isn't quite as dense. I do it for at least an hour every day - morning, noon and evening. Many of the sidewalks actually are wide enough to do it, and when you see a group of people coming, you either put your mask on or on a residential street with light traffic, you can step out on to the street to let people pass. I can see why some people wouldn't be comfortable with doing that (I am though). Most people are decent and will move over to their respective edge of the sidewalk to make the space, though some don't.

Every neighborhood in New York City does not look like the streets leading towards Penn Station M-F, 6 pm.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jo3boxer on July 14, 2020, 09:31:53 PM
i would argue most parts of queens / the 5 boroughs are tough places to be able to remain 6 ft apart from each other.

that's where the confusion lies. some people agree, some don't.

imo the message should be: 'going outside? wear a mask. nyc is too crowded to remain 6 ft apart from people'

from there people can use their own judgement. ie, if im walking down the street at 3PM i'm likely running into no one.

the problem is that ppl have their masks at the ready but then pass by someone / a bunch of people and mean to put it on, but since they've hardly worn a mask in all their years of living, they don't have the reflex to put it on their mouth and nose.

once again, 34th ave is not the place to not wear a mask. i've yet to see a runner ducking each and every person walking down the street in favor of their straight line, so it should be mandatory that everyone does.

i imagine some won't agree.

I agree that in our area, walking on the sidewalks means you should wear a mask 100% of the time. But I still don't think Cuomo's message is confusing. He's a governor of an entire state, some of which includes huge amounts of farmland and emptiness. He's not an elected official of a small, densely populated neighborhood. So his instructions make sense. If you live in a densely populated area like ours, you should know you're going to pass people on the sidewalk repeatedly and without warning, and therefore wear your mask all the time.

perhaps confusing is not the right word. however, the fact that you agree with me and people don't tells me it's open to interpretation.

and i don't trust people to interpret things properly, ever, let alone in our covid world.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on July 16, 2020, 11:24:07 AM
i would argue most parts of queens / the 5 boroughs are tough places to be able to remain 6 ft apart from each other.

that's where the confusion lies. some people agree, some don't.

imo the message should be: 'going outside? wear a mask. nyc is too crowded to remain 6 ft apart from people'

from there people can use their own judgement. ie, if im walking down the street at 3PM i'm likely running into no one.

the problem is that ppl have their masks at the ready but then pass by someone / a bunch of people and mean to put it on, but since they've hardly worn a mask in all their years of living, they don't have the reflex to put it on their mouth and nose.

once again, 34th ave is not the place to not wear a mask. i've yet to see a runner ducking each and every person walking down the street in favor of their straight line, so it should be mandatory that everyone does.

i imagine some won't agree.

I agree that in our area, walking on the sidewalks means you should wear a mask 100% of the time. But I still don't think Cuomo's message is confusing. He's a governor of an entire state, some of which includes huge amounts of farmland and emptiness. He's not an elected official of a small, densely populated neighborhood. So his instructions make sense. If you live in a densely populated area like ours, you should know you're going to pass people on the sidewalk repeatedly and without warning, and therefore wear your mask all the time.

perhaps confusing is not the right word. however, the fact that you agree with me and people don't tells me it's open to interpretation.

and i don't trust people to interpret things properly, ever, let alone in our covid world.

Yes, very true!
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: voelteer on July 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
The "anec-data" in this thread from the JHLife commentariat is reflected in a nationwide mask-wearing survey reported on today, conducted earlier this month by Dynata for the NYTimes, ICYMI  :)
<https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=The%20Upshot>

The US Census districts used to map results from the survey show mask-wearing prevalence in/around JH to be just over 80%.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Shelby2 on July 17, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
The "anec-data" in this thread from the JHLife commentariat is reflected in a nationwide mask-wearing survey reported on today, conducted earlier this month by Dynata for the NYTimes, ICYMI  :)
<https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=The%20Upshot>

The US Census districts used to map results from the survey show mask-wearing prevalence in/around JH to be just over 80%.

Interesting! For some reason the link wasn't working so I looked it up: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/17/upshot/coronavirus-face-mask-map.html
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jh_foodie on July 17, 2020, 03:16:19 PM
I have a family member who has been on unemployment due to her not being able to work from home because of the nature of her job. Now her employer wants her to come in one day a week. She has health conditions putting her at at elevated risk of coronavirus and getting on a crowded bus can't be helping that. Plus her husband has similar health conditions (he's retired). Social distancing has worked out well for them. Is she out of options?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: lalochezia on July 17, 2020, 03:18:29 PM
I have a family member who has been on unemployment due to her not being able to work from home because of the nature of her job. Now her employer wants her to come in one day a week. She has health conditions putting her at at elevated risk of coronavirus and getting on a crowded bus can't be helping that. Plus her husband has similar health conditions (he's retired). Social distancing has worked out well for them. Is she out of options?

That's awful. How far away is the job? Is it worth keeping the job by getting a Taxi/Uber/Lyft etc and wearing a fitted N95 to and from work??
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jh_foodie on July 17, 2020, 06:16:38 PM
I have a family member who has been on unemployment due to her not being able to work from home because of the nature of her job. Now her employer wants her to come in one day a week. She has health conditions putting her at at elevated risk of coronavirus and getting on a crowded bus can't be helping that. Plus her husband has similar health conditions (he's retired). Social distancing has worked out well for them. Is she out of options?

That's awful. How far away is the job? Is it worth keeping the job by getting a Taxi/Uber/Lyft etc and wearing a fitted N95 to and from work??

Its in the LIC area. She's close to retirement anyways. I just don't understand the employers choice to force her to come in once a week. Obviously the work was nonessential enough that they were ok without her not coming in for four months. Why start now? Some employers are just super stupid.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: JHALUM on July 18, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
I was on Northern Blvd in the 80's last night and lots of people not wearing masks and congregating.  There were also quite a few open containers.  I also don't understand why  all the diners  are so close to each other with no masks.  Four at a table,  close to the table next to them and literally back to back with other tables.  If wearing masks prevents the spread of the virus we are not in good shape.  I personally don't find anything appealing about sitting outside in the heat on asphalt breathing in car fumes.  This will  be even  less appealing  during the heat wave.  The video below  captures Astorians  out in force doing similar things to those on Northern.


https://newyork.cbslocal.com/video/4633142-new-video-shows-crowds-outside-bars-in-astoria-not-following-social-distancing-rules/
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: dssjh on July 18, 2020, 03:47:19 PM
i've wondered aloud about the table spacing as well. the rule is several feet of spacing between tables, but virtually every restaurant on 37th has tables so close together that people in separate parties are touching chairs. yes, i know "they can't space things out more." but is that really an excuse to create a dangerous situation?
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Beherenow on July 18, 2020, 09:18:20 PM
I would not eat on Northern for reasons just articulated here. On the other hand, we just ate outside of Bistro Eloise.  Plenty of space between the tables.   Some kind of bamboo-like fence enclosed us.  Most people didn't wear masks, but there was enough distance for us to feel comfortable.Very pleasant experience, even though we were in the corner of a shopping mall.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: CaptainFlannel on July 19, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
^My understanding is that the rule is that diners can remove their masks at their table, but need to put them on to get up, use the restroom, upon leaving their table for anything. Servers are supposed to wear their masks at all times. We put on our masks while the server is taking our order, placing plates, etc.

Bistro Eloise has the spacing of the tables right. They might even have more seats outside than in their dining room Plaka, the Greek place next door, well it felt a little tight to me.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: Beherenow on July 19, 2020, 04:45:34 PM

Bistro Eloise has the spacing of the tables right. They might even have more seats outside than in their dining room Plaka, the Greek place next door, well it felt a little tight to me.

Agree. Unfortunately, other restaurants on 37th and Northern and Roosevelt don't have the luxury of carving out such a large extra space in a sidewalk that adjoins a parking lot.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: jh35 on July 28, 2020, 05:04:58 PM
I am surprised how things have deteriorated so fast. Today, on 35th and 37th avenues in the mid 70's many people were not wearing masks in the afternoon. On some blocks, almost 50% of the people were mask-less.

It does not take much to forget that grandma died a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Mask Wearing / Not Mask Wearing
Post by: bellabella on July 28, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Yesterday I saw police officers on Northern Blvd doing traffic stops while not wearing masks. I just don't get it!! It's not over folks-just beginning!!