Jackson Heights Life

Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: lmaniace on July 10, 2018, 12:01:55 PM

Title: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: lmaniace on July 10, 2018, 12:01:55 PM
The NYC City Planning Commissioner approved a spot zone change yesterday, allowing four extra floors on the "Target" building (the old Jackson Theater) on 82nd Street. Clearly a blatant give-away to the real estate industry (the folks who run NYC.) This building will create a traffic nightmare, jamming up a key ambulance access road to Elmhurst Hospital. And make no mistake, this will be followed up by similar redevelopment of other smaller buildings in the area. 
 
Now the zone change request goes the the City Council where if tradition holds, the Council member in whose district the zone change resides gets the final word. (Francisco Moya.)

In this case, however, Elmhurst Hospital sits in Councilman Dromm's district and some believe he has reasonable cause to speak out in opposition to the zone change. We are talking about the major medical institution for a good chunk of Queens; what's more a major part of the city's hospital system.

Don't have time to comment much more now since I'm at work.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on July 10, 2018, 12:59:34 PM
If Katz and Moya support it, Dromm will not be able to block it. I guess big money donations will all the time.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: lmaniace on July 10, 2018, 08:23:52 PM
Jackson Heights resident, attorney, and member of the NYC Planning Commission Larisa Ortiz voted no on the zone change. She made the following comments on the proposal, which would allow the developer to build 13 stories rather than the maximum of nine now permitted. Her main concerns were ambulance access to the hospital and the city's archaic 1961 zoning revision  calls for far more parking than would be needed in an area only one block from the subway. This excess of parking runs counter to the city's goals to cut the greenhouse gases that cause global warming.

 
First I would like to say that I support density - and certainly affordable housing - at transit rich locations.  Our city's robust economic growth depends on supporting a growing population and in ensuring that people of all incomes have healthy, safe places to live.

I have two issues with this proposal. The first is not unique to this site. The original 1961 zoning undercuts the city’s sustainability goals with high parking requirements – and then allows even more parking beyond the requirement – all at transit rich locations.  As a result, under this rezoning, we will have 120 units and 128 parking spaces (above the required 48) only ½ block from a subway station.  I know this zoning text predates all of us here, but it behooves us to revisit it in light our collective OneNYC goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

My bigger concern is the impact this project will have on emergency vehicles to Elmhurst Hospital, a Trauma 1 Medical Center and one of the busiest in the nation, whose emergency entrance is located along Baxter 1 block south of the site. I understand that an as of right scenario would also result in a loading dock at the intersection of Baxter/83nd, however, under the rezoning, we are doubling the size of this development. The commercial alone will go from about 20k sf to over 76k sf, a nearly fourfold increase which will result in more frequent loading/unloading and more 18-wheelers that will need pull forward, block 83nd Street - and emergency vehicles - and then pull back into the dock.  And the cars entering and exiting the lot at this same intersection, serviced only by two elevators I might add, will further exacerbate congestion.

Add to that the fact that the traffic analysis did not take into account the buses that ring this awkward triangular site. When asked about these routes, the development team wasn’t aware of the routes or their frequency. Nor did the analysis take into account the fact that the street pattern, where two street grids clash, mean that 83nd Street provides the ONLY direct north/south connection for nearly 1/2 mile between 77th and 85th Streets. The traffic study states only that sufficient alternative access is available to the east, south and west. Well, there are over 8,000 people who live in the ten block area directly north of the hospital. For them, those reassurances are no consolation.

While the hospital inexplicably chose not to weigh in on this matter, the Uniformed EMT Union did. I wish they had spoken at the hearing. They said this at a recent press event and I QUOTE “There are times this turns into a bottleneck and people can’t get through. We’ve sometimes waited 5-6 minutes to get into the ER. We’ve pulled patients out of the ambulance and walked them in from off the street." END QUOTE

If this project is to advance in its current form, I urge City Council to incorporate restrictions on loading/unloading, reduce the size of the parking facility in line with the city sustainability goals, and require a set aside for car-share vehicles that some studies have indicated replace as many as 15 personal vehicles for every one car-share vehicle. 

With that I vote no.


Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: theplanesland on July 12, 2018, 06:58:29 AM
Jackson Heights resident, attorney, and member of the NYC Planning Commission Larisa Ortiz voted no on the zone change. She made the following comments on the proposal, which would allow the developer to build 13 stories rather than the maximum of nine now permitted. Her main concerns were ambulance access to the hospital and the city's archaic 1961 zoning revision  calls for far more parking than would be needed in an area only one block from the subway. This excess of parking runs counter to the city's goals to cut the greenhouse gases that cause global warming.

 
First I would like to say that I support density - and certainly affordable housing - at transit rich locations.  Our city's robust economic growth depends on supporting a growing population and in ensuring that people of all incomes have healthy, safe places to live.

I have two issues with this proposal. The first is not unique to this site. The original 1961 zoning undercuts the city’s sustainability goals with high parking requirements – and then allows even more parking beyond the requirement – all at transit rich locations.  As a result, under this rezoning, we will have 120 units and 128 parking spaces (above the required 48) only ½ block from a subway station.  I know this zoning text predates all of us here, but it behooves us to revisit it in light our collective OneNYC goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.



Oh man, do I disagree. With the amount of screaming and gnawing and gnashing of teeth that goes on around here from car owners every time any sort of pedestrian improvement endangers their precious street parking, the idea that a building would actually provide parking that doesn't clutter up the curbs sounded like an utter breath of fresh air for me.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Jeffsayyes on July 12, 2018, 08:04:15 AM
Whatever justification they need to stop a Target from succeeding here, I am all for
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on July 12, 2018, 10:04:33 AM
Let me understand this: someone wants less parking than 128 spaces provided?
Sounds silly.
While I agree that the city should lessen the parking requirements for residential construction near subway stops based on the idea that people don’t need a car that does not mean we should reject a project for having too many parking spots.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on July 14, 2018, 05:53:26 AM
Where does the plan put all these parking spots?  An underground garage?  Surface lot?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on July 14, 2018, 04:18:26 PM
Where does the plan put all these parking spots?  An underground garage?  Surface lot?

This says the parking would be located in the sub-cellar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=712&v=HEbZ8k70MaQ
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: BEB on July 15, 2018, 03:52:09 PM
My husband sent me this update he spotted on QueensNeighborhoodsUnited's FB page from July 13th. Looks like they are going for a 10 story structure..which isn't that still taller than the 9 stories allowed?  https://www.facebook.com/QueensNeighborhoodsUnited/

"BREAKING NEWS: MILLIONAIRE DEVELOPERS WITHDRAW APPLICATION TO BUILD HIGHER ON 82ND ST!

Following extensive community opposition, the developers have WITHDRAWN their application to rezone 40-31 82nd Street. This is a HUGE victory for our community! After more than a year of organizing - in which the community pressured our elected officials and the developers - Sun Equity Partners and Heskel Group announced to the press that they will formally withdraw the application to rezone the site on Monday, 7/16.

We will not forget: Despite serious concerns raised by the community, multiple City Planning Commissioners, and Queens Community Board 4 (which voted overwhelmingly against the spot rezoning in March), Council Member Francisco Moya has been a vocal supporter of the rezoning since early May. CM Moya has made closed doors deals with the developers for more so-called “affordable” units in the project and he along with Queens Borough President Melinda Katz have accepted thousands of dollars from the developers.

If there is anything we have learned from this campaign, it is that we must relentlessly hold our elected officials accountable - it took almost half a year of organizing to pressure CM Moya to withdraw support from the rezoning.

OUR FIGHT IS NOT OVER. The developers have proposed a 10-story building instead of the rezoning, and it is still not for our community. We will continue to fight alongside our neighbors to create spaces that meet our community’s real needs: 100 percent neighborhood affordable housing, support for our immigrant-run small businesses (NOT corporate chains), community space and schools for the next generation."
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on July 15, 2018, 04:45:53 PM
Probably when you run the numbers to build the additional floors combined with the requirements that a certain portion be affordable, the numbers don’t make sense. It is better to build what is allowed without a rezoning. I think their main idea is to get Target open.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on July 15, 2018, 07:07:01 PM
I'm confused. Why would the developers withdraw their application for rezoning just a few days after they got the green light from the City Planning Commission?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHResident on July 16, 2018, 11:06:27 PM
It appears that they didn't like the conditions set on the affordable housing portion of the expansion. They wanted the affordable housing to be more temporary than the zoners would agree to. Instead, their statement said they will eliminate the affordable housing part of the construction and build a 9 storey building "by right". Maybe Lenny can verify if this is true. From looking at the rest of Elmhurst, it's hard to believe that there any zoning restrictions.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on July 17, 2018, 07:28:45 AM
The end result is 0% affordable housing. Great job on behalf of our politicians. 9 stories is plenty tall enough and with a target no less. The politicians get to keep the donations. That will not change.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: M7X7 on July 17, 2018, 02:48:16 PM
The end result is 0% affordable housing.

If affordable housing is what you want, then any development (even "luxury" development) is good news. The people who will move in to this building would otherwise have been increasing demand for every other building in the area, raising prices. (And the people who were then priced out of those buildings would be increasing demand for cheaper buildings, and so on.) That's the real reason entrenched homeowners fight every new development - they want their property values to keep going up.

That said, there are valid concerns about this building in particular, like slowing access to the hospital with the 100+ cars they're inviting to park there.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on July 17, 2018, 03:15:50 PM
"That's the real reason entrenched homeowners fight every new development - they want their property values to keep going up."

uh, no.

homeowners want to maintain what they paid for. they don't want crowds and the reduced quality of life that comes with more people squeezing into a preexisting infrastructure.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: M7X7 on July 18, 2018, 09:13:06 AM

homeowners want to maintain what they paid for. they don't want crowds and the reduced quality of life that comes with more people squeezing into a preexisting infrastructure.

And imagine what New York would look like if they started getting their way in, say, 1900.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on July 18, 2018, 09:37:32 AM
Affordable housing is the Mayor’s and city Council’s requirements if you want to exceed what is allowed “as a right” under current zoning. It is not my idea or goal. I personally feel that a building that has a high volume store like a Target should not be allowed to get any bigger because it creates more problems with traffic and deliveries.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on July 18, 2018, 03:25:17 PM
"And imagine what New York would look like if they started getting their way in, say, 1900."

Not sure what your point is M7X7, but anyway, perhaps you should look into overcrowded conditions/tenement life in NYC at the turn of the century. It's not a pretty picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Other_Half_Lives

http://ushistoryscene.com/article/immigrants-cities-disease/
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Paul11372 on July 18, 2018, 03:30:50 PM
"And imagine what New York would look like if they started getting their way in, say, 1900."

Not sure what your point is M7X7, but anyway, perhaps you should look into overcrowded conditions/tenement life in NYC at the turn of the century. It's not a pretty picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Other_Half_Lives

http://ushistoryscene.com/article/immigrants-cities-disease/


Which is why communities like Jackson Height exist in the first place. Seem like some people in the neighborhood want to pull the ladder up behind them once they got theirs.  In major cities, things change, neighborhood evolve. I for one, saw 1 movie there in 20 years so perhaps something new in that space isnt the end of the world as we know it.


Interesting place to visit:
http://www.tenement.org/

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on July 18, 2018, 03:48:32 PM
Paul, take a minute to refresh yourself on how to quote a previous post. I had to put glasses on to read yours.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Paul11372 on July 18, 2018, 03:53:11 PM
Paul, take a minute to refresh yourself on how to quote a previous post. I had to put glasses on to read yours.

Why Thank You, best of luck with your jitter bug as well
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: M7X7 on July 18, 2018, 03:56:46 PM
Not sure what your point is M7X7,

My point is that it's not a reasonable demand to halt development when demand is growing, and if you try then you end up with a housing crisis. The point of the comment about 1900 is that much of the city, including all of our skyscrapers and Jackson Heights itself, was built after that time and would not exist if NIMBY's from that era got their way.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on September 04, 2018, 10:25:45 AM
Queens Neighborhood United shared this on Facebook this morning:

QNU- Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/QueensNeighborhoodsUnited/?hc_ref=ARTrb-QpC-6Ax3_N2lKMmKFLtSJe3qSz5Eb6ncuD3JRwD5Xx6VRMQk8s7vVheSoQs4c&fref=nf&__tn__=kC-R)

Family, we’d like to share some exciting news-- as of August 29th, the Department of Buildings will be issuing a stop work order and move to revoke the permit at 40-31 82nd Street. See the attached photos of the document signed by the Queens Borough Commissioner at the Department of Buildings, Derek Lee.

What does that mean? It means a few things:
(1) The Department of Buildings (DOB) confirmed our belief that big-box, department stores like Target are not legally allowed to be tenants at 40-31 82nd Street, based on the city’s land-use laws at the site. Currently, the site only is supposed to accommodate local or small businesses. In spite of this, the developers had been marketing the space as a “regional destination” and “a rare outdoor shopping mall experience in the outer boroughs.”

(2) Because the DOB has revoked the permits for the site, the developer’s plans for the site are no longer legal and that means ALL CONSTRUCTION AT THE SITE MUST STOP. If you see or hear any construction at the site, CALL 311 immediately to report a “violation of a stop work order”!!

(3) We believe the DOB’s decision for our site may have huge consequences across the city in the fight against corporate chain and big box store takeover. If the DOB believes that sites zoned similarly to ours cannot legally accommodate a big box store like Target, what does that mean for the planned, but unbuilt Targets like those in Astoria and the Upper East Side? What could it mean for Target locations that have already been built, like the East Village location?

This decision is a major blow to the plans of the developers, Sun Equity Partners and Heskel Group, the politicians who have been in lock-step with them since day one (Council Member Francisco Moya, Queens Borough President Melinda Katz, and Ari Espinal), and the corporate lackeys at the 82nd Street Partnership who have been fronting like they support small businesses while systematically welcoming corporations and developers into the neighborhood with open arms.

We’d like to thank the community members who submitted challenges and supported the research in this, as well as those who have continued to sign the pledge to not shop at the 82nd Street Target, should it ever be built! Stay with us, family, and keep your eyes and pressure on the developers and their minions.



Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 04, 2018, 12:02:06 PM
If Target isn't allowed...does that mean we'll probably get a "Dollar Tree" instead?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 04, 2018, 01:38:13 PM
I have to admit that I always thought the zoning there would not allow a big box store like Target to open. What is the zoning there? I believe that the Sterling bank site at 73rd Street and Broadway which is zoned C4-3 would allow a small target to open. Target will probably look at that site next.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: KDGHP on September 04, 2018, 05:30:31 PM
I have to be honest - not jazzed to hear this news. I guess I am of the unpopular opinion that the proposed Target would vastly improve the quality of the block (at the very least aesthetically), potentially offer more jobs to the residents of the area, and even attract more people from different areas to JH to eat/shop/etc. I definitely wasn't thrilled about 13-story "luxury" condos, but leaving this an empty lot is not a solution and is actually worse for the area.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: am315 on September 04, 2018, 05:55:02 PM
I'm not sure the Queens United folks have their facts right.

I went to the DOB website and there is no evidence that the project is not going forward. There is a filing showing that the contractor has been fined $2400 and is in violation of DOB rules due to creating excessive debris at the site. The contractor has been ordered to rectify the matter.

With regard to "big box" stores, Target and other retailers are opening stores throughout the U.S. that are of a variety of sizes. Some are the standard massive big box stores like you might see in the suburbs. Others aren't. Target, for one, has been creating smaller stores for urban markets...so to say that Target will be prohibited from building there is incorrect. I don't see anything in the zoning that prohibits Target. Based on the renderings that have been submitted by their architects it looks like they are planning three floors of commercial. Maybe that's a big box, maybe not.

Personally, I don't think that's a great site for any large development whether it be an office building, apartments or a multi-story retailer. That street is already a disaster.

That said, I don't see why there is such opposition to a Target. The neighborhood needs better stores that offer a variety of merchandise at reasonable prices. Target has a pretty good selection and pretty good prices. But if you disagree you're free to shop elsewhere.



Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 04, 2018, 08:07:33 PM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: toque198 on September 04, 2018, 10:06:27 PM
If you look at the snippet of the DOB document it cites 40-19 82nd st.

The old theater was 40-31.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on September 04, 2018, 10:51:39 PM
If you look at the snippet of the DOB document it cites 40-19 82nd st.

The old theater was 40-31.

I noticed that as well, but I think many times buildings have more than one address. In this case, I looked up 40-19 82nd St. on the DOB site and it came up with multiple alternative addresses.

(https://i.imgur.com/BClZq9M.jpg)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 05, 2018, 12:13:54 AM
I believe that in certain commercial zoning groups a store is limited to a certain size of it doesn’t have off street parking. Maybe they tried to get away with a paid parking garage.  Having a Target with no off street parking wouldn’t to good for the block or neighborhood.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Olivesta on September 05, 2018, 12:35:48 AM
I don’t see why people would be so thrilled to have an empty lot when we couod have a business with jobs. The neighborhood needs more
variety and businesses. What’s the point in being stuck in the past when the rest of New York moves on. Of course development should be measured but applauding
no innovation and not wanting any new  business is shot sighted and not helping rhe neighborhood.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Jhx on September 05, 2018, 01:04:36 AM
Yea, in your mind, a Target means moving on.  Get your head examined.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Jeffsayyes on September 05, 2018, 07:53:07 AM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.


That doesn't mean they are doing the best thing for the neighborhood. Yes, it will be popular and the money from our community will be siphoned out of it and going to wherever Target is based. It makes us poorer and takes away our character.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on September 05, 2018, 08:07:11 AM
Shouldn't any zoning issues or challenges to zoning have been resolved before the building was razed? I don't fully understand what is going on here.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: CaptainFlannel on September 05, 2018, 09:26:57 AM
Quote
Of course development should be measured but applauding no innovation and not wanting any new  business is shot sighted and not helping rhe neighborhood.

Opposing a big box store isn't opposing "any new business." One can disagree with the opposition to big box chain stores without misrepresenting the position of those who oppose big box chain stores.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 05, 2018, 06:09:09 PM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.



That doesn't mean they are doing the best thing for the neighborhood. Yes, it will be popular and the money from our community will be siphoned out of it and going to wherever Target is based. It makes us poorer and takes away our character.

I agree. But if even the immigrants who are providing the character are more interested in shopping "in the American way"... it doesn't bode well for keeping the character.  I suppose stores can be retro-fitted to create character (Williamsburg)...or retro-Latino fitted...for more ambiance...but here in the USA, everything does tend to end up Disney-fied.

Hey, ain't that the American Dream?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Jeffsayyes on September 05, 2018, 09:26:18 PM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.



That doesn't mean they are doing the best thing for the neighborhood. Yes, it will be popular and the money from our community will be siphoned out of it and going to wherever Target is based. It makes us poorer and takes away our character.

I agree. But if even the immigrants who are providing the character are more interested in shopping "in the American way"... it doesn't bode well for keeping the character.  I suppose stores can be retro-fitted to create character (Williamsburg)...or retro-Latino fitted...for more ambiance...but here in the USA, everything does tend to end up Disney-fied.

Hey, ain't that the American Dream?


Immigrants aren't the only ones who can provide character. BUT usually it's immigrants who have to open up their own businesses in order to have an income. Most stores do not make very much - that's why the kids become nurses, doctors, lawyers etc. If it's target, though, no one in there is making enough to support a family.
Gentrification is such a loaded word. I lean towards keeping the most money as possible in our community. The local business will keep the most money here.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 05, 2018, 09:41:57 PM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.



That doesn't mean they are doing the best thing for the neighborhood. Yes, it will be popular and the money from our community will be siphoned out of it and going to wherever Target is based. It makes us poorer and takes away our character.

I agree. But if even the immigrants who are providing the character are more interested in shopping "in the American way"... it doesn't bode well for keeping the character.  I suppose stores can be retro-fitted to create character (Williamsburg)...or retro-Latino fitted...for more ambiance...but here in the USA, everything does tend to end up Disney-fied.

Hey, ain't that the American Dream?


Immigrants aren't the only ones who can provide character. BUT usually it's immigrants who have to open up their own businesses in order to have an income. Most stores do not make very much - that's why the kids become nurses, doctors, lawyers etc. If it's target, though, no one in there is making enough to support a family.
Gentrification is such a loaded word. I lean towards keeping the most money as possible in our community. The local business will keep the most money here.

Yes, to keep the money in the neighborhood would be good. Theoretically.  But I wonder if that really happens?
The landlords live outside of the neighborhood.  Patel Bros' owners are definitely outside the neighborhood.
Do the shop owners live in the neighborhood?  I don't know. Possibly not.

I agree the idea of keeping the money in the neighborhood is sound.

But I imagine the reality is already far from that.

Dudley (Queensboro) is part of the neighborhood.  E77 definitely is. Food Dynasty, absolutely not.  Foodtown, no.
It would be interesting to know which of the shopkeepers live in Jackson Heights.  My guess is not that many.

Also, the thing is that Target could hire workers from the neighborhood...



 
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 06, 2018, 12:32:25 AM
Almost all of the landlords and store owners in JH live in Nassau County and actually have a poor opinion of the neighborhood. They always tell me that while they do business here, they would never live here.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jh35 on September 06, 2018, 01:54:42 AM
Almost all of the landlords and store owners in JH live in Nassau County and actually have a poor opinion of the neighborhood. They always tell me that while they do business here, they would never live here.

I have spoken to immigrants who live in the neighborhood and they do not like the local stores. They said, "This is not like real America." It reminded me of a movie in which the immigrant family moved to Quebec, Canada and they said it was "fake America."
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: sl on September 06, 2018, 07:48:59 AM
Observing.

On the other side of 82nd, there's OLD NAVY, GAP & BANANA REPUBLIC and these franchises are crowded with immigrants buying stuff.

I'd say any Target that opens up will also be overflowing with folks in pursuit of the American Dream.


That doesn't mean they are doing the best thing for the neighborhood. Yes, it will be popular and the money from our community will be siphoned out of it and going to wherever Target is based. It makes us poorer and takes away our character.

No, it won't.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Olivesta on September 06, 2018, 07:55:56 AM
Also the Bruson building is still half empty so who are all these small businesses that will pay the rent.  We don’t need a another pharmacy! People love shopping at Target and I am one of those people. Sorry, but it’s true. Where do the people who want Target protest? To me it seems as if a few people making a lot of noise are stopping this.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 06, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
I believe that those of us who are raised in Western style capitalist lifestyles have the luxury to deride that culture.

The irony is that immigrants strive for exactly what we dismiss as characterless.

Such is the paradox of the situation. And life.

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 06, 2018, 10:37:22 AM
To be fair if people who oppose Target trigger or cause a reexamination to see if Target complies with zoning laws, is that wrong?  Other landlords who rent to smaller stores have to comply with the zoning laws so why should Target be given an exemption? The main problem is the lack of parking. Both College Point and Maspeth have huge parking lots. I understand that this store is smaller but maybe not small enough to trigger the requirements for off street parking exclusively for the store. Zoning laws are the law.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Alfster on September 06, 2018, 02:37:34 PM
The NYC City Planning Commissioner approved a spot zone change yesterday, allowing four extra floors on the "Target" building (the old Jackson Theater) on 82nd Street. Clearly a blatant give-away to the real estate industry (the folks who run NYC.) This building will create a traffic nightmare, jamming up a key ambulance access road to Elmhurst Hospital. And make no mistake, this will be followed up by similar redevelopment of other smaller buildings in the area. 
 
Now the zone change request goes the the City Council where if tradition holds, the Council member in whose district the zone change resides gets the final word. (Francisco Moya.)

In this case, however, Elmhurst Hospital sits in Councilman Dromm's district and some believe he has reasonable cause to speak out in opposition to the zone change. We are talking about the major medical institution for a good chunk of Queens; what's more a major part of the city's hospital system.

Don't have time to comment much more now since I'm at work.

Don't worry about the increased auto traffic and lack of parking.  By the time this Target opens most people will be expected to ride bikes or take "uber" vehicles to get around.   ::)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Alfster on September 06, 2018, 02:39:16 PM
Let me understand this: someone wants less parking than 128 spaces provided?
Sounds silly.
While I agree that the city should lessen the parking requirements for residential construction near subway stops based on the idea that people don’t need a car that does not mean we should reject a project for having too many parking spots.

At the same time, the city needs to do more to make the MTA not only more efficient, but be able to provide increased capacity to transport people.  The current system is bursting at the seams...
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: DijoninJH on September 07, 2018, 08:05:59 AM
The city does not control the MTA, so until the state and city come to together and really find ways to improve the system, there nothing going to be done to improve the overtasked and decades behind the rest of the world transit system we have.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 07, 2018, 11:21:56 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/06/nyregion/nyc-storefront-vacancy.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

While we squabble over Target in Jackson Heights, this article is a true vision of the future of retail.  (Due to online shopping)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 07, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
This article shows us that all the stores in certain neighborhoods are owned by probably a few Uber rich landlords who can afford to keep storefronts empty. If you can’t rent at a high rent normally you lower the rent till you can find a renter. This has nothing to do with the explosion of Jackson Heights gentrification that is bringing national chains that realize there is a buck to be made in Queens. I don’t see an explosion of empty storefronts in our neighborhood.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 08, 2018, 10:54:51 AM
This article shows us that all the stores in certain neighborhoods are owned by probably a few Uber rich landlords who can afford to keep storefronts empty. If you can’t rent at a high rent normally you lower the rent till you can find a renter. This has nothing to do with the explosion of Jackson Heights gentrification that is bringing national chains that realize there is a buck to be made in Queens. I don’t see an explosion of empty storefronts in our neighborhood.

Jackson Heights is part of New York City. And part of the world.  Exceptionalism, through a prevalent attitude in folks, won't save Jackson Heights' retail from general trends.   The future of all retail is in the article. 5 or 10 years down the track, maybe. But the writing is on the wall.

Once the younger generation, who have been brought up online become the majority consumers... only oldies will be left buying from stores.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on September 08, 2018, 11:50:11 AM
Once the younger generation, who have been brought up online become the majority consumers... only oldies will be left buying from stores.

wow

you need to get out more.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 08, 2018, 12:14:48 PM
Once the younger generation, who have been brought up online become the majority consumers... only oldies will be left buying from stores.

wow

you need to get out more.

I am pretty sure that's what folks around the 1900's said when others predicted the demise of the horse drawn carriage.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 09, 2018, 06:43:52 AM
It’s the end of world folks! Weren’t we suppose to all driving flying cars like in the Jetsons by now? It is hard to predict the future but if you could can become very wealthy and move to one of these futuristic neighborhoods. I will just feeding my horse in my barn and keep living like an ostrich my head in the sand.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on September 09, 2018, 08:12:59 AM
My walker just won't go any faster!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on September 09, 2018, 11:06:16 AM
Once the younger generation, who have been brought up online become the majority consumers... only oldies will be left buying from stores.

wow

you need to get out more.

I am pretty sure that's what folks around the 1900's said when others predicted the demise of the horse drawn carriage.

Wait, a couple of days ago, you said these stores were mobbed by immigrants eager to spend their cash. Are they all senior citizens?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 09, 2018, 11:42:20 AM
Once the younger generation, who have been brought up online become the majority consumers... only oldies will be left buying from stores.

wow

you need to get out more.

I am pretty sure that's what folks around the 1900's said when others predicted the demise of the horse drawn carriage.

Wait, a couple of days ago, you said these stores were mobbed by immigrants eager to spend their cash. Are they all senior citizens?

For Jackson Heights...what's happening in gentrified neighborhoods...will happen in 10 years...

It's the kids of immigrants who will be technologically savvy.

Also the future is exciting!  Change/technology is great. And not something to be feared.

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on September 09, 2018, 04:32:58 PM
Trump university style pivots and dodges again. Hilarity ensues. But we agree, the future will continue to happen in the future!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 09, 2018, 06:00:36 PM
Trump university style pivots and dodges again. Hilarity ensues. But we agree, the future will continue to happen in the future!

I will ignore the insult, DSSJH as you can't help yourself. It seems to be a compulsion for you.  Like a tic!

But here's to the future!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 13, 2018, 02:13:37 PM
Interesting article from the NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/06/nyregion/nyc-storefront-vacancy.html
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on September 13, 2018, 07:11:57 PM
Trump university style pivots and dodges again. Hilarity ensues. But we agree, the future will continue to happen in the future!

I will ignore the insult, DSSJH as you can't help yourself. It seems to be a compulsion for you.  Like a tic!

But here's to the future!

and you can't help but call yourself a visionary and mock anyone who disagrees with you by saying they're stuck in the past, old and dull-witted, insisting that your vision of the future is the only one that will take hold. it's kinda sweet. bitcoin forever!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 14, 2018, 05:10:23 AM
Trump university style pivots and dodges again. Hilarity ensues. But we agree, the future will continue to happen in the future!

I will ignore the insult, DSSJH as you can't help yourself. It seems to be a compulsion for you.  Like a tic!

But here's to the future!

it's kinda sweet.

I will take the positive from what you've said.  "It's kinda sweet". So thanks, DSSJH.  And if you meant it patronizingly, never mind...I will still take it on face value and assume you mean well.  :)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 16, 2018, 06:03:38 AM
Please let’s get back on point. New article states the reason why the zoning is considered not acceptable. As I previously stated the Sterling bank site with its size and C4-3 zoning would be allowed as a right but this site would require a variance from the Board of Standards.

https://www.timesledger.com/stories/2018/37/82ndstreet_2018_09_14_q.html
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 16, 2018, 11:17:41 PM
Please let’s get back on point. New article states the reason why the zoning is considered not acceptable. As I previously stated the Sterling bank site with its size and C4-3 zoning would be allowed as a right but this site would require a variance from the Board of Standards.

https://www.timesledger.com/stories/2018/37/82ndstreet_2018_09_14_q.html

In your subtext, are you suggesting that Target move to the Sterling Bank site instead? (I do doubt greatly that Target scouts read this blog.)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 18, 2018, 09:10:03 AM
They could as a right open on 73rd and Broadway but would never get a variance on 82nd. They are many people who strongly suggested that they want a neighborhood Target. I am offering a possible location.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 18, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
They could as a right open on 73rd and Broadway but would never get a variance on 82nd. They are many people who strongly suggested that they want a neighborhood Target. I am offering a possible location.

It's like playing the computer game SIM CITY.  Creating virtual cities.  It is fun to play. (Though in my version of SIM CITY I do think that Sterling Bank site is only a fraction the size of the 82nd St square footage.  Plus I imagine anti-Target sentiments run all the way to 73rd St.)

But again, I am pretty sure the Target folks aren't reading this blog.

I am completely neutral about a Target opening.  Fine if it does.  Fine if it doesn't.

But I don't believe that a Target would decimate small businesses. Target doesn't sell Latino/Asian/South Asian products/specialities.

And actually if it's one of those Targets with a supermarket food section...that's a plus...as the supermarket section of Target usually has good prices for basic groceries.



Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: toddg on September 21, 2018, 12:24:56 PM
Jackson Heights Post: Target Still Coming to 82nd Street, DOB Rescinds Stop-Work Order (https://jacksonheightspost.com/target-still-coming-to-82nd-street-dob-rescinds-stop-work-order)

(https://jacksonheightspost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2018/09/Screen-Shot-2018-09-21-at-11.15.05-AM-600x385.png)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Paul11372 on September 21, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Jackson Heights Post: Target Still Coming to 82nd Street, DOB Rescinds Stop-Work Order (https://jacksonheightspost.com/target-still-coming-to-82nd-street-dob-rescinds-stop-work-order)

(https://jacksonheightspost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2018/09/Screen-Shot-2018-09-21-at-11.15.05-AM-600x385.png)


Provides solid Union, middle class, construction jobs. don't let the NIMBY's win!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 21, 2018, 01:26:45 PM
So we are still going to get a Target but now it will be two small crappy stores. I guess the NIMBY’s have won a partial victory. If I was Target, I would walk away from that location and focus on a place that will allow a big footprint store. I don’t understand why they are in love with that site.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: wk067781 on September 21, 2018, 01:49:04 PM
can't wait for the Target to open!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jh35 on September 21, 2018, 02:35:10 PM
So we are still going to get a Target but now it will be two small crappy stores. I guess the NIMBY’s have won a partial victory. If I was Target, I would walk away from that location and focus on a place that will allow a big footprint store. I don’t understand why they are in love with that site.

How can a building go from a 9 story building to a two story building? Didn't it start as a 5 story building?

What is it called when a gentrified neighborhood is changed by immigrants who will not let non-immigrant owned stores open?

Is this to become a 99 cent store and pharmacy only neighborhood?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: sl on September 21, 2018, 02:36:32 PM
can't wait for the Target to open!

Same. I wish they open a Target at the former Sports Authority location on Northern.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on September 21, 2018, 03:35:53 PM
So we are still going to get a Target but now it will be two small crappy stores. I guess the NIMBY’s have won a partial victory. If I was Target, I would walk away from that location and focus on a place that will allow a big footprint store. I don’t understand why they are in love with that site.

Probably because the location is ideal, being right next to the 82nd St subway, and not far from Elmhurst Hospital, which must have thousands of employees. Not to mention the massive population of Jackson Heights itself -- this Target is actually in walking distance of Jackson Heights, as opposed to the Elmhurst one which is only walking distance if you feel like walking 20-30 minutes each way.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on September 21, 2018, 03:50:42 PM
So we are still going to get a Target but now it will be two small crappy stores. I guess the NIMBY’s have won a partial victory. If I was Target, I would walk away from that location and focus on a place that will allow a big footprint store. I don’t understand why they are in love with that site.

Did they win? I'm not sure. I thought Queens Neighborhood United was against Target. They lost that part. I'm not sure where they stood on affordable housing, but the old plan contained quite a bit of extremely affordable housing, and all that seems to be gone.

I'm happy with the outcome. I support Target being here in the neighborhood, and at the same time, I did think a 9 to 13 story building would have added too much congestion to an already crowded area.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 22, 2018, 05:56:54 AM
I agree there is too much housing in that area. Thank God they scraped the residential tower. Now we can have more in those other ground level retail stores like a 99cent store, a pharmacy, optical and bank which are all are in short supply in JH. The NIMBY’s have won because the Target will be much smaller than originally planned.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: toddg on September 22, 2018, 01:17:40 PM
Target is trying out smaller-format stores across the country.  Here's a Target PR page on its small-format stores:
https://corporate.target.com/article/2018/07/small-format-stores

Here's the 45,000 square foot Target in TriBeCa:
http://fortune.com/2016/10/05/target-manhattan-smaller-store/

Here's the 12,800 square foot Target in Chicago:
https://www.retaildive.com/news/target-expanding-urban-footprint-with-new-chicago-store/513628/

The Elmhurst Target was reported last year to be 23,580 square feet.  I haven't seen an updated estimate, but I don't believe Target has gotten smaller in this new proposal.  They'll have about 23,000 square feet on the lower level plus some additional footprint on the ground floor.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on September 24, 2018, 12:42:17 PM
True we don’t have a before and after revision number as to the exact square footage. They just could be chopping up the other retail but I believe it is all related to the off street parking requirements in this zoning district. I believe that the developers may also be building the commercial portion of the project now and then later add the residential tower. It may be cheaper to do it like that. This was done at the Costco in Rego Park.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: the80s on January 22, 2019, 09:58:21 AM
New rendering for "The Shoppes on 82nd Street" seems to be just two stories.
https://newyorkyimby.com/2019/01/rendering-revealed-for-40-31-82nd-street-in-jackson-heights-queens.html
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on January 22, 2019, 10:05:49 AM
New rendering for "The Shoppes on 82nd Street" seems to be just two stories.
https://newyorkyimby.com/2019/01/rendering-revealed-for-40-31-82nd-street-in-jackson-heights-queens.html

Fancy, it's not.

Hmmmm...."Shoppes" with an Olde Worlde British feel? Not really.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: StevenGrey on January 22, 2019, 10:17:50 AM
Well without Target as an anchor store, let me take a wild guess at what we'll see there:
Retail A: Fruit stand
Retail B: Frozen yogurt place
Retail C: Another independent pharmacy
Retail D: Streetwalker dress shop (shoppe?)
Retail E: 99¢ discount store

Thanks all you rabble-rousers. I'd have rather kept the theater.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: queenskid2 on January 22, 2019, 11:29:54 AM
Is Target out of the picture?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Olivesta on January 22, 2019, 01:22:04 PM
Target is still alive and kicking ;-)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: the80s on January 24, 2019, 04:59:30 PM
I'm so confused about the status of this project. Here's a long story about the whole conflict that was published yesterday, but does not necessarily clarify what's happening now:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/01/queens-target-jackson-heights-amazon-zoning-gentrification/580717/
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on January 24, 2019, 05:22:34 PM
I'm so confused about the status of this project. Here's a long story about the whole conflict that was published yesterday, but does not necessarily clarify what's happening now:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/01/queens-target-jackson-heights-amazon-zoning-gentrification/580717/

From what I've read and documentaries I've watched, Brooklyn went through a similar anti-gentrification movement 15 years ago.  And probably 15 years before that the LES also struggled against these issues. (Like in RENT. The musical.)

Well, we all know what happened and how the conflict panned out.



Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on January 24, 2019, 08:30:42 PM
yes we do. they became a little more like Cincinnati.

 
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on January 24, 2019, 11:05:43 PM
I'm so confused about the status of this project. Here's a long story about the whole conflict that was published yesterday, but does not necessarily clarify what's happening now:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/01/queens-target-jackson-heights-amazon-zoning-gentrification/580717/

What I got from the article is that the plans for Target are proceeding. It doesn't exactly say that, but it says that QNU tried to have the developer's building permit annulled. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March. However, the the Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal.

"A few days after the community trial, community members packed a New York State Supreme Court room on January 10, in support of QNU’s suit against the developers. They argued before the judge to have the developer’s building permit annulled. Construction on the project has begun and QNU says that with the case pending the developers have been fast-tracking construction efforts at the site in a race against the clock. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March.

The Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal."
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Chingwa on January 26, 2019, 01:12:08 PM
I'm not really wanting box stores like Target moving into the neighborhood... but is Target more valuable to the residents than run-down dollar stores and hoochie-mama shops?  It's a legitimate question, and I don't know the answer.  At least hoochie-mama shops are locally owned (or so I assume).
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on January 27, 2019, 08:00:35 PM
I'm not really wanting box stores like Target moving into the neighborhood... but is Target more valuable to the residents than run-down dollar stores and hoochie-mama shops?  It's a legitimate question, and I don't know the answer.  At least hoochie-mama shops are locally owned (or so I assume).

I think Target is valuable to many residents, and many residents want it here. The problem is the Queens Neighborhoods United group makes a lot of noise and is trying to make people believe that all area residents are against Target. And that is simply not true.

I absolutely prefer Target over a bunch of 99 cent stores.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on January 28, 2019, 08:30:12 AM
I'm not really wanting box stores like Target moving into the neighborhood... but is Target more valuable to the residents than run-down dollar stores and hoochie-mama shops?  It's a legitimate question, and I don't know the answer.  At least hoochie-mama shops are locally owned (or so I assume).

I think Target is valuable to many residents, and many residents want it here. The problem is the Queens Neighborhoods United group makes a lot of noise and is trying to make people believe that all area residents are against Target. And that is simply not true.

I absolutely prefer Target over a bunch of 99 cent stores.

Tend to agree. I was at the recently opened Essex Crossing Target on the LES recently. I assume the size will be similar to the one here.  The Target grocery section is pretty good.

They also have a giant spacious Trader Joes in the complex without long, long lines, so they are spoiled. 
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: the80s on January 28, 2019, 09:20:01 AM
I'm so confused about the status of this project. Here's a long story about the whole conflict that was published yesterday, but does not necessarily clarify what's happening now:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/01/queens-target-jackson-heights-amazon-zoning-gentrification/580717/

What I got from the article is that the plans for Target are proceeding. It doesn't exactly say that, but it says that QNU tried to have the developer's building permit annulled. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March. However, the the Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal.

"A few days after the community trial, community members packed a New York State Supreme Court room on January 10, in support of QNU’s suit against the developers. They argued before the judge to have the developer’s building permit annulled. Construction on the project has begun and QNU says that with the case pending the developers have been fast-tracking construction efforts at the site in a race against the clock. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March.

The Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal."

Thanks for the close read. I think you're right. I am confused about what the current proposal is exactly though-- e.g. how many stories? The rendering on the latest article on YIMBY looked like it was only 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on January 28, 2019, 11:25:15 AM
I'm so confused about the status of this project. Here's a long story about the whole conflict that was published yesterday, but does not necessarily clarify what's happening now:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/01/queens-target-jackson-heights-amazon-zoning-gentrification/580717/

What I got from the article is that the plans for Target are proceeding. It doesn't exactly say that, but it says that QNU tried to have the developer's building permit annulled. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March. However, the the Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal.

"A few days after the community trial, community members packed a New York State Supreme Court room on January 10, in support of QNU’s suit against the developers. They argued before the judge to have the developer’s building permit annulled. Construction on the project has begun and QNU says that with the case pending the developers have been fast-tracking construction efforts at the site in a race against the clock. They requested that the judge either shut down the project entirely or impose a temporary stop-work order until the ruling by the city’s Board of Standards and Appeal, expected in March.

The Supreme Court judge refused to issue a stop-work order and deferred the case back to the Board of Standards and Appeal."

Thanks for the close read. I think you're right. I am confused about what the current proposal is exactly though-- e.g. how many stories? The rendering on the latest article on YIMBY looked like it was only 2 or 3.

I was confused by that as well.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on January 28, 2019, 12:30:55 PM
I think Target is valuable to many residents, and many residents want it here. The problem is the Queens Neighborhoods United group makes a lot of noise and is trying to make people believe that all area residents are against Target. And that is simply not true.

I absolutely prefer Target over a bunch of 99 cent stores.

Queens Neighborhoods United is making a lot of noise, but we also have political figures like Jessica Ramos and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez who have expressed their anti-Target views citing the potential for gentrification.

I'm in agreement about preferring the Target over more 99 cent stores. I don't have statistics, but I think many immigrants will also support the Target, as they do some of the other shops along 82nd Street like the Gap, Old Navy, and Banana Republic. Again, this is solely based on my observations. The one argument I'm interested in hearing more about is the issue relating to access to Elmhurst Hospital. 
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on February 07, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
Did you know that the whole area around 82nd Street was designated an Opportunity Zone by NYS which means they get huge federal and state tax breaks?

https://esd.ny.gov/opportunity-zones
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on February 07, 2019, 11:54:13 AM
rich developers never spend their own money, just ours.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JK resident on February 07, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
Why 82nd and not 74th Street? It seems only the connected to the Governor get these tax breaks. Did the community get consulted as to which areas should be included?

https://therealdeal.com/2019/02/06/this-ny-lawmaker-is-going-after-opportunity-zone-incentives/

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: the80s on May 10, 2019, 12:36:16 PM
The latest on the Target in Elmhurst (and one planned for Astoria).
https://thecity.nyc/2019/05/target-takes-aim-at-queens-and-the-borough-fires-back.html
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on May 11, 2019, 11:28:25 AM
It's now down to two stories?  Will there be any residential?  This strikes me as very stupid.  We have a housing crisis in this city that is causing sky rocketing rents.  You do not solve that by preventing additional apartments from being built.  We need MORE HOUSING.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 11, 2019, 12:44:17 PM
Target, at this time and place, is planned as two stories: street level and underground. Local neighborhood organizations, however, are objecting to the underground portion. Said groups have other plans for the site, i.e. community facility. They are opposed to apartments.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JH3525 on May 11, 2019, 02:34:15 PM
Shinjukubaby:  We have always had a housing shortage in NYC for those with a low budget.  Currently there are 914 apartments from studios to 2 bedrooms in the $1750 to $2500 range in Queens.  For those with a budget range of $1250 to $1500 there are 29 apartments available all studios.  Less than $1250 there is one availability which is one bedroom in a 3 bedroom apartment. 

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Donna on May 13, 2019, 01:40:10 PM
The target in Forest Hiils is worthless,so small I felt was alot go nothing. I expect the same waste of space in JH
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Balulu on May 13, 2019, 07:14:30 PM
Donna, I totally agree with you.  I had mixed feelings about a Target until I visited the mini store in Forest Hills.  There's really nothing much there that I couldn't find in our Rite Aides and local supermarkets.  The only thing different I saw was probably the home goods section, but I don't need to redecorate my apartment that often and I don't buy that kind of stuff from Target anyways.  Too bad.  I am tired of all the pharmacies, banks and 99 cent stores, but I just don't see what the Target will add to the neighborhood. 
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on May 13, 2019, 07:23:00 PM
The only small Target I've been to is the one above the new Trader Joes on the Lower East Side. I liked it. I would welcome it in the neighborhood. One thing I like about Target is their prices, which are generally more reasonable than places like Duane Reade, etc. I also prefer the shopping environment/aesthetics over drug stores. I hope we get our Target!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 13, 2019, 09:04:04 PM
We don't have many shops that sell housewares. There are two in JH on Roosie.

I bought my toaster oven at 8903 Roosevelt. There's also a housewares dept upstairs from a cosmetic shop somewhere below 82nd on Roosevelt.

I also buy stuff in the City. I almost never shop online. It would be nice to have one other option nearby.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Olivesta on May 13, 2019, 09:15:06 PM
People who are in favor of Target should make their voices heard too cos Queens Neighborhood United are very loud and claim to represent everyone.

Write to the Board of Standards and Appeals  re case  BSA Cal. No. 2018-166A (40-31 82nd Street, Queens). You can send an email.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/index.page

And contact local politicians to make your views known.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: KGDHP on May 14, 2019, 09:20:59 AM
People who are in favor of Target should make their voices heard too cos Queens Neighborhood United are very loud and claim to represent everyone.

Write to the Board of Standards and Appeals  re case  BSA Cal. No. 2018-166A (40-31 82nd Street, Queens). You can send an email.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/index.page

And contact local politicians to make your views known.

AMEN! Will write the BSA today and will contact Dromm, Ramos, and Melinda Katz. Incidentally, I wrote the BSA the first time there was a hearing and also MK. I am so in favor of a Target. As I've said in other threads, QNU is a hateful group who somehow claim to represent the views of the Borough, even though they have like 5 members. Go figure.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Ecrivain on May 14, 2019, 10:11:39 PM
Bring on Target! The sooner the better.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 15, 2019, 09:15:07 AM
If people don't want a Target they won't shop there.

And Target will shut.

It's that simple.

Disallowing the option of making the choice is not free enterprise.

The other businesses will have competition. And THEY SHOULD RISE TO THE CHALLENGE.

There are places around the world where Starbucks set up shop and FAILED because cafes/businesses in those countries competed with Starbucks coffee/premises and sold a better product and superior customer experience.

It's business. I look forward to seeing how the other businesses LIFT THEIR GAME.

Maybe they can add a mariachi band!  Maybe they can offer Hispanic cooking demonstrations! Perhaps they can present Latino celebrities instore. There are literally hundreds of ideas of how to compete and win the loyalty of neighborhood customers. 

Fear of competition is a cowardly reason to ban anything.

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Jeffsayyes on May 15, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
If people don't want a Target they won't shop there.

And Target will shut.

It's that simple.

Disallowing the option of making the choice is not free enterprise.

The other businesses will have competition. And THEY SHOULD RISE TO THE CHALLENGE.

There are places around the world where Starbucks set up shop and FAILED because cafes/businesses in those countries competed with Starbucks coffee/premises and sold a better product and superior customer experience.

It's business. I look forward to seeing how the other businesses LIFT THEIR GAME.

Maybe they can add a mariachi band!  Maybe they can offer Hispanic cooking demonstrations! Perhaps they can present Latino celebrities instore. There are literally hundreds of ideas of how to compete and win the loyalty of neighborhood customers. 

Fear of competition is a cowardly reason to ban anything.




It's not THAT simple actually. The format is set up so the bigger companies succeed. Rents are so high that an individual owner cannot last a year of losses. Target and Starbucks will always be able to withstand that pressure. Also, the marketing for these big businesses reaches so many more people - so yes they will get more business because of that. Yes, people choose to shop there but we are the ones that lose out because of it. Maybe we can choose what we want in our neighborhood. Maybe we should do whatever we can so that our neighbors are the ones making money - and not the minimum wage that just keeps people docile. We have so many stores here and you can get almost anything online too - I'd rather not have companies here that exist in every other town in the US. Anyways, just buy your crap from target.com if you need to - stay home and you don't even gotta put on pants.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 15, 2019, 10:31:49 AM
If people don't want a Target they won't shop there.

And Target will shut.

It's that simple.

Disallowing the option of making the choice is not free enterprise.

The other businesses will have competition. And THEY SHOULD RISE TO THE CHALLENGE.

There are places around the world where Starbucks set up shop and FAILED because cafes/businesses in those countries competed with Starbucks coffee/premises and sold a better product and superior customer experience.

It's business. I look forward to seeing how the other businesses LIFT THEIR GAME.

Maybe they can add a mariachi band!  Maybe they can offer Hispanic cooking demonstrations! Perhaps they can present Latino celebrities instore. There are literally hundreds of ideas of how to compete and win the loyalty of neighborhood customers. 

Fear of competition is a cowardly reason to ban anything.




It's not THAT simple actually. The format is set up so the bigger companies succeed. Rents are so high that an individual owner cannot last a year of losses. Target and Starbucks will always be able to withstand that pressure. Also, the marketing for these big businesses reaches so many more people - so yes they will get more business because of that. Yes, people choose to shop there but we are the ones that lose out because of it. Maybe we can choose what we want in our neighborhood. Maybe we should do whatever we can so that our neighbors are the ones making money - and not the minimum wage that just keeps people docile. We have so many stores here and you can get almost anything online too - I'd rather not have companies here that exist in every other town in the US. Anyways, just buy your crap from target.com if you need to - stay home and you don't even gotta put on pants.

The trouble with your logic is that it is YOU selecting who can open in this neighborhood. And who can't. Alas, that logic comes from a sort of arrogance. One that seems to think YOU know what's best. Rather than a free market.

Take note. With all the money and resources Starbucks has... yet still it failed in certain countries/markets. (And not by being banned from opening!)
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: sl on May 15, 2019, 01:05:19 PM
If people don't want a Target they won't shop there.

And Target will shut.

It's that simple.

Disallowing the option of making the choice is not free enterprise.

The other businesses will have competition. And THEY SHOULD RISE TO THE CHALLENGE.

There are places around the world where Starbucks set up shop and FAILED because cafes/businesses in those countries competed with Starbucks coffee/premises and sold a better product and superior customer experience.

It's business. I look forward to seeing how the other businesses LIFT THEIR GAME.

Maybe they can add a mariachi band!  Maybe they can offer Hispanic cooking demonstrations! Perhaps they can present Latino celebrities instore. There are literally hundreds of ideas of how to compete and win the loyalty of neighborhood customers. 

Fear of competition is a cowardly reason to ban anything.




It's not THAT simple actually. The format is set up so the bigger companies succeed. Rents are so high that an individual owner cannot last a year of losses. Target and Starbucks will always be able to withstand that pressure. Also, the marketing for these big businesses reaches so many more people - so yes they will get more business because of that. Yes, people choose to shop there but we are the ones that lose out because of it. Maybe we can choose what we want in our neighborhood. Maybe we should do whatever we can so that our neighbors are the ones making money - and not the minimum wage that just keeps people docile. We have so many stores here and you can get almost anything online too - I'd rather not have companies here that exist in every other town in the US. Anyways, just buy your crap from target.com if you need to - stay home and you don't even gotta put on pants.

That’s sounds dangerous, that type of thinking. Who gets to decide who can open businesses in JH? What’s next?,  people will decide who is allowed and who’s not allowed to live in JH?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on May 15, 2019, 01:49:59 PM
then again, people *have* frequently come on here to suggest that commercial landlords need to be investigated for favoring people of their own ethnic groups, and to suggest we "need to do something" to stop the opening of more pharmacies/phone stores. also a dangerous concept.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on May 22, 2019, 10:23:15 AM

The final public hearing regarding the new Target was held yesterday with the QNU group and the city Board of Standards and Appeals. According to the article, a decision will be released at a later date.

From QNS.com:

‘Seriously consider our testimony’: Elmhurst Target development reaches BSA hearing (https://qns.com/story/2019/05/21/seriously-consider-our-testimony-elmhurst-target-development-reaches-bsa-hearing/)

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on May 22, 2019, 11:42:01 AM

The final public hearing regarding the new Target was held yesterday with the QNU group and the city Board of Standards and Appeals. According to the article, a decision will be released at a later date.

From QNS.com:

‘Seriously consider our testimony’: Elmhurst Target development reaches BSA hearing (https://qns.com/story/2019/05/21/seriously-consider-our-testimony-elmhurst-target-development-reaches-bsa-hearing/)

Ugh. The "activists" sound obnoxious. They also seem to have no idea that they do not speak for the entire community. Time for me to send my letter of support for Target to the BSA.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 22, 2019, 11:53:42 AM

The final public hearing regarding the new Target was held yesterday with the QNU group and the city Board of Standards and Appeals. According to the article, a decision will be released at a later date.

From QNS.com:

‘Seriously consider our testimony’: Elmhurst Target development reaches BSA hearing (https://qns.com/story/2019/05/21/seriously-consider-our-testimony-elmhurst-target-development-reaches-bsa-hearing/)

Ugh. The "activists" sound obnoxious. They also seem to have no idea that they do not speak for the entire community. Time for me to send my letter of support for Target to the BSA.

You could start a petition at https://www.change.org/
In support of the project. Then the silent majority might lend their support which can be presented to the powers-that-be.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on May 22, 2019, 12:07:02 PM
i'm agnostic about having a Target in the neighborhood. i like the chain's politics, i like their efforts to hire locally, but i probably won't shop there because they don't really have much for sale to draw me in. if i lived closer to the location -- 81st or 83rd street, say -- because i'd be directly impacted by increased traffic. it'll be interesting to watch it play out.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: KGDHP on May 22, 2019, 12:23:54 PM

The final public hearing regarding the new Target was held yesterday with the QNU group and the city Board of Standards and Appeals. According to the article, a decision will be released at a later date.

From QNS.com:

‘Seriously consider our testimony’: Elmhurst Target development reaches BSA hearing (https://qns.com/story/2019/05/21/seriously-consider-our-testimony-elmhurst-target-development-reaches-bsa-hearing/)

Ugh. The "activists" sound obnoxious. They also seem to have no idea that they do not speak for the entire community. Time for me to send my letter of support for Target to the BSA.

They are the most obnoxious. Seriously, I challenge anyone to visit their social media pages and find anything positive. They're racist, anti-establishment, and fight for the most insane things (yes to decrim prostitution, no to Target, huh?). They're constantly claiming that they have the voice of the community, and they're barely able to collect 200 signatures against Target...please. In a community with a population of 170k+ that's literally like .001%. I'm can't wait for them to just go away.

As for the suggestion to start a petition, that's not a bad idea actually. I'm going to be really bummed if we lose Target.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on May 22, 2019, 09:05:39 PM
I sent my letter today to the BSA as suggested earlier in this thread. I hand wrote it and sent it snail mail, thinking it would have more impact that way. But perhaps I should send an email as well.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 09:39:45 AM
perhaps I should send an email as well.

I don't find an email address per Olivesta at https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/index.page

Do you have one, Shelby? What address did you snail mail to?

Will you relay here some basic concepts from your letter to help others construct their own? I am going to point out that we have only two home goods shops, one smaller than a corner bodega, the other almost unknown, upstairs from a cosmetics store and more like a tiny warehouse. And compare that to an innumerable presence of pharmacies and cell phone stores. (Note & comment, will Target contain a pharmacy?)

JK Resident posted awhile ago that the area is an opportunity zone. If true, why should there be any opposition to new business in an opportunity zone? QNU is using the traffic around the hospital as an excuse.

If we do anything, we have to do it now.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on May 23, 2019, 09:52:35 AM
perhaps I should send an email as well.

I don't find an email address per Olivesta at https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/index.page

Do you have one, Shelby? What address did you snail mail to?

Will you relay here some basic concepts from your letter to help others construct their own? I am going to point out that we have only two home goods shops, one smaller than a corner bodega, the other almost unknown, upstairs from a cosmetics store and more like a tiny warehouse. And compare that to an innumerable presence of pharmacies and cell phone stores. (Note & comment, will Target contain a pharmacy?)

JK Resident posted awhile ago that the area is an opportunity zone. If true, why should there be any opposition to new business in an opportunity zone? QNU is using the traffic around the hospital as an excuse.

If we do anything, we have to do it now.

I used the snail mail address on this page. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/contact-bsa/contact-bsa.page I also put the case number from this post  (http://www.jacksonheightslife.com/community/index.php?topic=18020.msg93517#msg93517) in the text of my letter on the front of the envelope.

There is an "email the Chair" button also on the contact page for the BSA (look to the left).

My letter was not that great and should probably not be used as a template. It was very basic - I just expressed my support for the project, stated where I lived, and also mentioned that I know many others who support it, and please not to listen to just one very vocal group who purports to represent the community's opinion (against the project).
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 10:10:05 AM
I am going to point out that we have only two home goods shops, one smaller than a corner bodega, the other almost unknown, upstairs from a cosmetics store and more like a tiny warehouse. And compare that to an innumerable presence of pharmacies and cell phone stores. (Note & comment, will Target contain a pharmacy?)

As far as I can tell from a quick google search, Target just might contain a pharmacy. And home goods looks more like pillows than cast iron pans (that I don't want to buy online for obvious reasons).

Help me out here, people.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on May 23, 2019, 10:30:31 AM
From the Jackson Heights Post:

Final Decision Concerning Fate of 82nd Street Target to Be Made June 4: BSA (https://jacksonheightspost.com/final-decision-concerning-fate-of-82nd-street-target-to-be-made-june-4-bsa)

Community members in opposition to the plan also argue that Target is a “big box department store” and that the BSA should therefore block it from opening on these grounds alone. They also note that the developers are using a loophole to get around the 10,000 square feet requirement.

A representative of Congress Member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez read a letter condemning the developers’ zoning argument.

“I am submitting a letter in support of community demands to stop Target and potential negative effects… this development goes against the spirit and intent of the zoning regulation,” a representative from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office said.

Queens Neighborhood United, a grass-roots group that has been leading the charge to prevent the development, argues that the Target store would contribute to the displacement of residents and small businesses in the Elmhurst and Jackson Heights area.

The group took legal action last year after the Department of Buildings announced the building and Target conformed with zoning. The group took the issue up with the BSA.

Co Founder of QNU, Tania Mattos, who spoke at the hearing, said that most small businesses, local politicians, and community members have stood with QNU in opposition of the development.


Full article at above link.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jh35 on May 23, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
From the Jackson Heights Post:

Final Decision Concerning Fate of 82nd Street Target to Be Made June 4: BSA (https://jacksonheightspost.com/final-decision-concerning-fate-of-82nd-street-target-to-be-made-june-4-bsa)

Community members in opposition to the plan also argue that Target is a “big box department store” and that the BSA should therefore block it from opening on these grounds alone. They also note that the developers are using a loophole to get around the 10,000 square feet requirement.

A representative of Congress Member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez read a letter condemning the developers’ zoning argument.

“I am submitting a letter in support of community demands to stop Target and potential negative effects… this development goes against the spirit and intent of the zoning regulation,” a representative from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office said.

Queens Neighborhood United, a grass-roots group that has been leading the charge to prevent the development, argues that the Target store would contribute to the displacement of residents and small businesses in the Elmhurst and Jackson Heights area.

The group took legal action last year after the Department of Buildings announced the building and Target conformed with zoning. The group took the issue up with the BSA.

Co Founder of QNU, Tania Mattos, who spoke at the hearing, said that most small businesses, local politicians, and community members have stood with QNU in opposition of the development.


Full article at above link.

Make Jackson Heights poor again.

As someone pointed out a while ago, (generally) the owners of these small stores in the area, the 99 cents stores, the pharmacies, etc., do not even live in the area. They live in the suburbs with their families, living the American dream. Many of them are members of Price Club.

But, because of the loud mouths, we can not have decent stores.

I like OAC but she is a bit wacky and gullible.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 11:26:16 AM
I would normally oppose a big box store coming to the community. But I'm changing my stance in that regard for two reasons.

1) I have no confidence in the small stores surviving. They have short lifespans and are personal more so than community investments.

2) I want shops that will have the interest and the guts to sell "Made in the USA." That's nearly an impossibility in our locally owned or run stores.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 23, 2019, 11:39:30 AM
I would normally oppose a big box store coming to the community. But I'm changing my stance in that regard for two reasons.

1) I have no confidence in the small stores surviving. They have short lifespans and are personal more so than community investments.

2) I want shops that will have the interest and the guts to sell "Made in the USA." That's nearly an impossibility in our locally owned or run stores.

This is interesting.
Made in the USA = expensive
Compared with Made in China, Bengaldesh etc
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 11:46:39 AM
This is interesting.
Made in the USA = expensive
Compared with Made in China, Bengaldesh etc

Not an issue for me. I would rather have one made in USA item than 10 from China.

What makes things expensive is better paid labor. We say we support unions & higher minimum wage, but buy non union and low wage??? How do you square that?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
A representative of Congress Member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez read a letter condemning the developers’ zoning argument.

“I am submitting a letter in support of community demands to stop Target and potential negative effects… this development goes against the spirit and intent of the zoning regulation,” a representative from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office said.

Queens Neighborhood United, a grass-roots group that has been leading the charge to prevent the development, argues that the Target store would contribute to the displacement of residents and small businesses in the Elmhurst and Jackson Heights area.

What jumps out here is the AOC and QNU connection that was also prevalent in the beginnings of the Amazon resistance. QNU is no small local group doing inconsequential things. It is socialist and racist and has the support of many if not all of our pols.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on May 23, 2019, 12:37:35 PM
I would normally oppose a big box store coming to the community. But I'm changing my stance in that regard for two reasons.

1) I have no confidence in the small stores surviving. They have short lifespans and are personal more so than community investments.

2) I want shops that will have the interest and the guts to sell "Made in the USA." That's nearly an impossibility in our locally owned or run stores.

if you want to buy "made in the USA," you definitely don't want a Target here.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 01:07:31 PM
You're either jumping ahead of yourself or living in the past. Things are changing vis a vis Chinese products. We don't know yet to what extent tariffs will affect our purchases or alternative imports, or how it will affect US manufacturing in the future.

Would you care to comment on this point? What makes things expensive is better paid labor. We say we support unions & higher minimum wage, but buy non union and low wage??? How do you square that?

Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 23, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
You're either jumping ahead of yourself or living in the past. Things are changing vis a vis Chinese products. We don't know yet to what extent tariffs will affect our purchases or alternative imports, or how it will affect US manufacturing in the future.

Would you care to comment on this point? What makes things expensive is better paid labor. We say we support unions & higher minimum wage, but buy non union and low wage??? How do you square that?

We either live in

1. A global economy where manufacturing is outsourced overseas and these jobs are gone and new industries take their place.

2. Or we live in a protected USA-centric economy where manufactured goods are made here and expensive.

3. Or we live in a free global economy and goods are manufactured here by robotics and thus can compete with overseas low wages.

My guess is that the third one (3) is in the future for the USA. In 5, 10, 20 years. Cutting out wages and unions etc completely.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on May 23, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
out of curiosity, if you cut out wages, unions, physical labor and the like entirely, how do people continue to live? we can't all simply become coders and IT people.

there was an episode of the Twilight Zone, in which a visionary managed to eliminate all workers entirely, and then had himself eliminated by his own invention.

The Brain Center at Whipple's. check it out.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jeanette on May 23, 2019, 02:28:16 PM
I submitted my comments electronically on the Email the Chair page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/bsa/contact-bsa/email-the-chair.page (clik Email the Chair after the word "visit" in the body text).
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 23, 2019, 04:22:46 PM
out of curiosity, if you cut out wages, unions, physical labor and the like entirely, how do people continue to live? we can't all simply become coders and IT people.

there was an episode of the Twilight Zone, in which a visionary managed to eliminate all workers entirely, and then had himself eliminated by his own invention.

The Brain Center at Whipple's. check it out.

New jobs will arise that haven't been invented yet. That's always been the way.

Before the Industrial revolution there were no steam train drivers. Before cars were invented there were no car mechanics. Ten years ago there were hardly any Social Media Coordinators.

Just because folks don't have the imagination to work out what future jobs will be, doesn't mean there won't be any.

Projecting a dystopia onto the future (doom and gloom) is as old as the fact that the only thing constant in humankind's  evolution is change.  I say embrace it and don't fear it.







Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on May 23, 2019, 04:38:15 PM
i didn't mean to project doom and gloom; i just asked for a potential, tangible solution to a problem/issue that will arise.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: the80s on June 04, 2019, 12:18:53 PM
It's official. The BSA voted to uphold the Elmhurst Target this morning, per a tweet from The City's Christine Chung.

https://twitter.com/chrisychung/status/1135919814419992577
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: abcdefghijk on June 04, 2019, 12:56:25 PM
It's official. The BSA voted to uphold the Elmhurst Target this morning, per a tweet from The City's Christine Chung.

https://twitter.com/chrisychung/status/1135919814419992577

Ok. Now it's time for the other businesses to lift their game. The competition is coming. May the consumer win!
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: Shelby2 on June 04, 2019, 02:02:32 PM
It's official. The BSA voted to uphold the Elmhurst Target this morning, per a tweet from The City's Christine Chung.

https://twitter.com/chrisychung/status/1135919814419992577

Good.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on June 04, 2019, 03:06:37 PM
Not sure if this is just noise after a loss, but the QNU group seems to plan on continuing the fight against the Target development:

From the Jackson heights Post:

Target Coming to Elmhurst, Building Plans Approved by BSA (https://jacksonheightspost.com/target-coming-to-elmhurst-building-plans-approved-by-bsa)

QNU, which has been leading the charge to prevent the development, expressed its disappointment following the vote. The group argues that the Target store would contribute to the displacement of residents and small businesses in the Elmhurst and Jackson Heights area.

“We will continue fighting and not give up until there is no Target on that site,” said Tania Mattos, co founder of QNU.

Members of QNU were escorted out of the hearing by police this morning.

The grassroots group plans to appeal the issue to the NYS Supreme Court within the next 30 days and will continue to work with the Department of Buildings on this case.


Full article at above link.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on June 08, 2019, 08:09:24 AM
The market will decide.  If Target is truly not wanted in the area, nobody will shop there.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: JHMNY on July 09, 2019, 08:39:51 AM
Article from Crain's New York Business:

Queens developer swamped by progressive wave (https://www.crainsnewyork.com/features/queens-developer-swamped-progressive-wave)

July 08, 2019 07:00 AM
Daniel Geiger

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez trashed his project, his local city councilman turned on him, and his state senator along with a neighborhood community group sued him.

Queens real estate developer Heskel Elias says he has a tale to tell about his attempt last year to construct an apartment building in Jackson Heights with affordable units and a Target store on its ground and basement levels.

While the project might seem innocuous in a city short on low-income apartments and retail outlets catering to price-conscious shoppers, it instead drew fierce opposition from a progressive wave that has focused its ire on corporate and real estate interests.

Elias, a longtime Queens resident, a developer for more than 30 years and a political donor known for his deep pockets, was forced to retreat from his plans for the development at 40-31 82nd St., a block from the 7 train.

As a result, he and his partner in the project, Sun Equity Partners, are proceeding with a revised plan that doesn't require any zoning changes and will house offices and medical suites instead of the residential units, with the Target store anchoring the retail space.

That scaled-down version of the development continues to draw bitter opposition as well as a lawsuit from state Sen. Jessica Ramos and the community group Queens Neighborhoods United.

Despite spending more than $1 million on planning for the failed apartment building, including fees for lobbyists, architects and lawyers, what troubles Elias more than the lost time and money are the blows he says he has suffered to his reputation from elected officials eager to cast him as a villain at a moment when real estate interests have become a target of populist anger.

Elias gripes that his experience is an example of how that shift has stifled debate over the merits of real estate development and persuaded more moderate elected officials, fearing political backlash, to abandon projects like his.

"In politics, in order to shine, you need to find an enemy you can bash," Elias said. "And I was the perfect person at the perfect moment."

Elias said that just over a year ago, he counted Councilman Francisco Moya, a Queens Democrat and former state assemblyman, as a key supporter. The two attended a meeting in early 2018 to discuss the proposed apartment and retail building with the chairman of the local community board, which was opposed to the development.

"Moya was advocating for us," Elias said. "We would have never gone ahead and spent $1 million on the planning of this project if he hadn't given us encouragement."

To raise the 13-story, 120-unit project that Elias envisioned, he needed to rezone the site to boost its allowable square footage. Mayor Bill de Blasio has encouraged developers to seek such modifications under the city's Mandatory Inclusionary Housing program, which grants added bulk in exchange for guarantees that 25% to 30% of a project's square footage be reserved for affordable units. MIH has been a core component in several of the de Blasio administration's rezonings. Given its proximity to the 7 train, Elias' building was also in line with the prevailing belief among city planners that added density should be granted to sites close to transit.

Left turn

But the political winds soon began shifting for Moya. Ocasio-Cortez, then campaigning for the House of Representatives seat long held by Joseph Crowley—a political mentor and ally of Moya—expressed stinging criticism of Elias' project at a community board meeting in March 2018, a precursor to the kind of anti-development rhetoric she used to help scuttle Amazon's proposed Long Island City headquarters.

In November Ocasio-Cortez toppled Crowley, ushering in a progressive wave in city and state politics and dealing a major blow to the Democratic Party machine that had cultivated Moya's political career.

"AOC created a totally different atmosphere," Elias said. "Everyone went into their hole."

To try to undercut the growing criticism, Elias pledged to offer even lower rents for about half of the project's 42 affordable units to make them suitable for renters earning the area median income of around $47,000 a year.

By then the developer was midway through the city's uniform land-use review procedure, a seven-month approval process that ultimately would give Moya power to green-light or block the project.

Elias said he also struck a deal, at Moya's behest, to employ higher-paid union building workers, including doormen, porters and maintenance staff, at the property. But flak from vocal opponents, including Queens Neighborhoods United, continued to dog the project. The critics labeled it a symbol of gentrification in a working-class neighborhood with a large population of immigrants—despite the fact that economists and planners have largely discredited the notion that stifling development curtails rising rents.

"If a developer is coming into a community and is building housing that is not affordable to that community, they are bringing in a different wealth bracket," said Carina Kaufman-Gutierrez, an organizer for Queens Neighborhoods United. "That is a harbinger of displacement."

The opposition group, which was founded in 2013 to represent immigrant interests in neighborhoods such as Elmhurst, Jackson Heights and Corona, took issue with the fact the affordable apartments, no matter how low the rents, would be out of reach of most undocumented residents because the city's affordable-housing program requires applicants to have a Social Security or Taxpayer ID number.

Caught in the middle

Elias said he received a phone call from Ramos, who was then running for state Senate, just after the 2018 Fourth of July holiday. Ramos told him she was rejecting a campaign donation of $14,000 that Elias had given her for her Senate run, and she would donate the contribution to a charity providing relief to detained migrants at the border. Her campaign later said that it had given the money to the Hispanic Federation.

"We had support from Jessica Ramos. She had her hand out to us, and we contributed to her campaign," Elias said. "She told me she wanted to donate the money to the border. I said, 'Not a problem.' She could do whatever she wanted with it."

(A spokeswoman for Ramos said she never supported Elias' project.)

Later that day Elias said he received a call from his lobbyist, former City Council Speaker Peter Vallone Sr., who told him that Moya had called and angrily declared that he was cutting off his support because Elias had spoken with Ramos, whom Moya had previously warned him not to discuss the project with.

"Moya told me, 'I don't get along with her, and if you communicate with her, all bets are off,' " Elias said. "But I'm not hiding from anyone. If she calls me, I'm going to speak to her. I'm not going to fall between two people who pretend to hate each other."

Moya denied that assertion.

"I don't even know how to respond to that," Moya said. "I have a good relationship with Jessica. People will say whatever they're going to say."

Moya offered a different description of his falling-out with Elias. He claimed that he had asked the developer to enter into a binding agreement with the city's Department of Housing Preservation and Development that would have formally bound Elias to deliver the cut-rate units at deeper affordability levels. Elias never consummated the agreement with HPD.

"This is a guy who has been incapable of telling the truth," Moya said. "It has nothing to do with progressive politics. When someone is being disingenuous, that's not something that I'm going to tolerate."

But some planning experts questioned Moya's explanation, pointing out that he could have made the lower affordability levels a requirement of his approval for a portion of the apartments without the involvement of HPD.

Without Moya's backing, the rezoning proposal never came to a vote in the City Council, and the project was scuttled.

In his conversation with Crain's, Moya sought to distance himself from his initial support of the development. "This is a project I inherited from a predecessor," he said, referring to former Councilwoman Julissa Ferrara.

Shortly after, Elias abandoned the residential component and pushed forward with a 2-story retail and office building spanning roughly 100,000 square feet, with the Target still in place, that could be built as-of-right under existing zoning rules.

That didn't quell the project's opponents, and a temporary stop-work order was issued in September by the city's Department of Buildings at the behest of Queens Neighborhoods United. The opposition group, along with Ramos and other plaintiffs, then filed a lawsuit in state Supreme Court to challenge the presence of the Target, arguing that the site's zoning precludes a department store.

Target plans to open a roughly 23,000-square-foot urban concept store at the site, smaller than its normal big-box locations, that the company and Elias have described as a "variety store" in planning documents—a designation allowed under the site's zoning.

The lawsuit contends the store, regardless of type, is still larger than what is allowed. Zoning for the site prohibits stores in excess of 10,000 square feet. The Target skirts that by locating the bulk of its space in the property's basement, floor area that is not counted under city zoning rules—a technicality that the lawsuit challenged.

The case was dismissed earlier this year, as was an appeal to the city's Board of Standards and Appeals. The plaintiffs are now appealing the lower court decision in the state's Appellate Division.

Kaufman-Gutierrez insisted that the Target would drive local businesses under. She said a store near Elias' project recently closed, with the proprietor reporting to her group that the landlord had raised the rent $3,000 a month because of Target's pending arrival.

Meanwhile, the advocacy group conducted a street survey of what it says the community would like to see built on the site. The top four responses: a park, a senior housing complex, a 100% affordable apartment building or a community center for youth and worker programming.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jh35 on July 09, 2019, 09:32:55 AM
Article from Crain's New York Business:

Queens developer swamped by progressive wave (https://www.crainsnewyork.com/features/queens-developer-swamped-progressive-wave)


Lovely, now we have a neighborhood completely under the control of the illegal aliens. (People overstaying their visas are here illegally. I am not against legal immigration or asylum seekers. The Trump camps at the border are a disgrace.) Legal residents be damned.

Now I wonder who is behind AOC. She seems deaf to resident's concerns.
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: carrefour_ny on July 09, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
You realize that there are no illegal aliens in the story, right?
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: jh35 on July 09, 2019, 09:47:08 AM
You realize that there are no illegal aliens in the story, right?

Really?
I read...

The opposition group, which was founded in 2013 to represent immigrant interests in neighborhoods such as Elmhurst, Jackson Heights and Corona, took issue with the fact the affordable apartments, no matter how low the rents, would be out of reach of most undocumented residents because the city's affordable-housing program requires applicants to have a Social Security or Taxpayer ID number.


Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: KGDHP on July 09, 2019, 01:50:24 PM
First and foremost...our local politicians are pretty spineless and I guarantee you they would have supported the project had the support been there.

Two...I also share concerns that the priority focus seems to have shifted to the rights and needs of undocumented residents. I am sorry, but if you are not here legally, you don't get to say whether or not we get a Target.

Three...YAY, just what we needed...MORE MEDICAL OFFICES!!

"As a result, he and his partner in the project, Sun Equity Partners, are proceeding with a revised plan that doesn't require any zoning changes and will house offices and medical suites instead of the residential units, with the Target store anchoring the retail space."
Title: Re: Nine stories not enough, city planners approve four more at "Target" building
Post by: dssjh on July 10, 2019, 01:23:32 PM
so, you're in favor of higher rents for everyone?

You realize that there are no illegal aliens in the story, right?

Really?
I read...

The opposition group, which was founded in 2013 to represent immigrant interests in neighborhoods such as Elmhurst, Jackson Heights and Corona, took issue with the fact the affordable apartments, no matter how low the rents, would be out of reach of most undocumented residents because the city's affordable-housing program requires applicants to have a Social Security or Taxpayer ID number.