Jackson Heights Life

Get Connected => Neighborhood Chat => Topic started by: JHResident on May 03, 2021, 02:46:13 PM

Title: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on May 03, 2021, 02:46:13 PM
This past week, the City Council approved making the Open Streets program permanent. Since the mayor suggested this originally, I think it's safe to predict he will sign this. Streetsblog is reporting on a petition to compromise on creating a permanent green space on 34th Ave. The "compromise" is long on promise but short on details. Everyone will get everything, but it doesn't appear obvious to me who will make these things happen. The article is at https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/05/03/the-compromise-new-open-streets-group-seeks-linear-park-for-jackson-heights (https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/05/03/the-compromise-new-open-streets-group-seeks-linear-park-for-jackson-heights) and the petition is at  https://www.34avelinearpark.com/ (https://www.34avelinearpark.com/)
The article quotes a supporter who says that tens of thousands of people use the open street each day. If that is not an exaggeration, then by all means support the petition! I haven't seen any real count of how many different people use 34th Ave, but if there is one please post a link so I can educate myself.

Whatever happens, someone has to prevent delivery scooters and electric bicycles from using this street when other vehicular traffic is prohibited. They rarely follow posted speed limits, often ignore traffic signals, and don't seem to understand that this is supposed to be a pedestrian pathway, not a short cut set up for their convenience.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on May 04, 2021, 07:57:41 AM
  I think this summers activities and the actual use of 34th Ave will play a big role in how the final decisions are made about permanence. We need to see what the electric vehicles situation is, large group cyclists moving through en masse and ultimately, in the fall, when we have a closer to normal situation we will see if commuter and local small business traffic can withstand this closure for this times that are currently in use. Things could change a lot once we see how the summer goes.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 07, 2021, 03:41:28 PM
this is actually not the real petition for compromise, it is to create a linear park in 34th Ave. 34Compromise.org has been the group that's been working on reaching a compromise and has its own petition. You need to stop lying to people and trying to pass as this is our compromise campaign. I don't know how your group is so comfortable with being this way, but you should really stop.

The people who have found out what the petition was really for feel lied to. This is the real petition for compromise https://airtable.com/shrEAOOfWeUg9kvFO in 34compromise.org you will see more information.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 07, 2021, 03:49:06 PM
there's so much anger in the anti-open street group. i was lukewarm in favor of 34th remaining open until the shouting started and pushed me firmly into that camp.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on May 07, 2021, 04:17:25 PM
 That's funny because I see a lot of anger, evasiveness and manipulation on both sides. It's an unpleasant situation and there is a need for some political or governmental group to see who is really doing the work to keep 34th Ave open vs. who is wanting some personal gain as leader or innovator or god knows what. They are dedicated volunteers and then there are people who are spouting lot's of crazy here. The whole Open Streets story with restaurants, etc. will probably not be decided this year either. The variety of experiences that are good and bad needs to stabilize to properly evaluate a change that is this big and this sudden.
 Personally, think the good parts of 34th Open Streets is negated by the excessively long hours with sometimes very little use and the length of blocks that is so much larger than any other street closure in all of NYC by a lot! Feel sorry for anyone trying to sell property on 34th Ave.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 07, 2021, 05:15:10 PM
According to the petitions pro and anti, the numbers who are for an open 34th Ave are DOUBLE the number who are against it.

This means that selling property on 34th Ave appeals to quite a majority of folks. And would probably be a selling point to buyers like them.

Yet again, the NUMBERS count. Not people's obvious agendas.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 07, 2021, 09:37:45 PM
According to the petitions pro and anti, the numbers who are for an open 34th Ave are DOUBLE the number who are against it.

This means that selling property on 34th Ave appeals to quite a majority of folks. And would probably be a selling point to buyers like them.

Yet again, the NUMBERS count. Not people's obvious agendas.

My apartment, which was NEVER noisy before, is noisy all day now because you want to walk in the street.  Your agenda is to be as selfish as you can.  What is my agenda?

Why don’t you make up some more fake statistics.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 07, 2021, 10:15:54 PM
We recently had a president who denied the numbers and called them fake because they did not suit him.

It did not work out for him.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 07, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
where is the anti-open street side? Because we are not against it. Compromise doesn't mean being against something, it means we want to find ways to make it work.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 07, 2021, 11:04:33 PM
That's funny because I see a lot of anger, evasiveness and manipulation on both sides. It's an unpleasant situation and there is a need for some political or governmental group to see who is really doing the work to keep 34th Ave open vs. who is wanting some personal gain as leader or innovator or god knows what. They are dedicated volunteers and then there are people who are spouting lot's of crazy here. The whole Open Streets story with restaurants, etc. will probably not be decided this year either. The variety of experiences that are good and bad needs to stabilize to properly evaluate a change that is this big and this sudden.
 Personally, think the good parts of 34th Open Streets is negated by the excessively long hours with sometimes very little use and the length of blocks that is so much larger than any other street closure in all of NYC by a lot! Feel sorry for anyone trying to sell property on 34th Ave.

We've actually heard someone with the situation of trying to sell their home, and the asking price is way lower than they thought they'd go, and it still doesn't sell.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: r on May 07, 2021, 11:21:09 PM
According to the petitions pro and anti, the numbers who are for an open 34th Ave are DOUBLE the number who are against it.

This means that selling property on 34th Ave appeals to quite a majority of folks. And would probably be a selling point to buyers like them.

That doesn't follow. Just because someone likes the open street doesn't mean that they would want to live on the open street.

That's one of the reasons the process so far hasn't been fair. The decision of what to do with 34th should have been up to the residents of 34th.

I haven't seen any poll of what the residents of 34th actually want. It would be nice to have those numbers.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 08, 2021, 08:07:10 AM
According to the petitions pro and anti, the numbers who are for an open 34th Ave are DOUBLE the number who are against it.

This means that selling property on 34th Ave appeals to quite a majority of folks. And would probably be a selling point to buyers like them.

That doesn't follow. Just because someone likes the open street doesn't mean that they would want to live on the open street.

That's one of the reasons the process so far hasn't been fair. The decision of what to do with 34th should have been up to the residents of 34th.

I haven't seen any poll of what the residents of 34th actually want. It would be nice to have those numbers.

People pay millions to live by the Highline. People pay alot to live in mews in London. People pay to live by a park. 

Folks who have moved away from an old fashioned car centric mentality and are looking for more eco friendly living would support living on an open street.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 08, 2021, 08:12:45 AM
That's funny because I see a lot of anger, evasiveness and manipulation on both sides. It's an unpleasant situation and there is a need for some political or governmental group to see who is really doing the work to keep 34th Ave open vs. who is wanting some personal gain as leader or innovator or god knows what. They are dedicated volunteers and then there are people who are spouting lot's of crazy here. The whole Open Streets story with restaurants, etc. will probably not be decided this year either. The variety of experiences that are good and bad needs to stabilize to properly evaluate a change that is this big and this sudden.
 Personally, think the good parts of 34th Open Streets is negated by the excessively long hours with sometimes very little use and the length of blocks that is so much larger than any other street closure in all of NYC by a lot! Feel sorry for anyone trying to sell property on 34th Ave.

We've actually heard someone with the situation of trying to sell their home, and the asking price is way lower than they thought they'd go, and it still doesn't sell.

Though folks are reluctant to accept the facts...apartments in Jackson Heights have probably decreased in value due to the pandemic. Urban living is no longer sought after.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on May 08, 2021, 11:32:29 AM
NOTE: There are many ways to compromise. It is not necessarily yes or no but perhaps something else. Please keep that in mind when thinking and commenting. Compromise is not my way or the highway.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 08, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
NOTE: There are many ways to compromise. It is not necessarily yes or no but perhaps something else. Please keep that in mind when thinking and commenting. Compromise is not my way or the highway.

I have noticed that mostly what goes on in forums online... is that when folks hear facts that don't suit them, they shoot the messenger. But since Ancient Greek times,  shooting the messenger NEVER changes the message.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: r on May 08, 2021, 03:12:10 PM
People pay millions to live by the Highline. People pay alot to live in mews in London. People pay to live by a park.

None of those people have given up direct car access to their homes. They don't have to move barricades to drive home, and nobody is yelling at them for driving on their street. No problems with deliveries. They also don't have the same noise pollution issues that 34th is causing.

It amazes me that we are almost 1 year into this and there still hasn't been a poll to see what the residents of 34th actually want. Unless they moved during the pandemic, none of them chose to live on an open street.

For the fans of open streets the ideal seems to be to live near 34th but not on 34th itself
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 08, 2021, 05:02:51 PM
i've seen people park,then walk a short distance to their homes.i've seen Uber drop people off on 34th, seen deliveries, seen emergency vehicles use the street. the only thing people can't do is drive for longer distances. are you suggesting that cars cannot exist on 34th avenue? if so, please explain the ones that are parked there right this minute.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 08, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
People pay millions to live by the Highline. People pay alot to live in mews in London. People pay to live by a park.

None of those people have given up direct car access to their homes. They don't have to move barricades to drive home, and nobody is yelling at them for driving on their street. No problems with deliveries. They also don't have the same noise pollution issues that 34th is causing.

It amazes me that we are almost 1 year into this and there still hasn't been a poll to see what the residents of 34th actually want. Unless they moved during the pandemic, none of them chose to live on an open street.

For the fans of open streets the ideal seems to be to live near 34th but not on 34th itself

Cars can still enter 34th Ave. No one has lost access. These comments are incorrect and clearly agenda'ed. If folks have gripes against the Open Street perhaps discussing the real situation... And not pretending it is worse than what exists...may be a starting point.

Everyone has walked along the Open 34th Ave countless times in the past year. So I am unsure who folks think they're fooling when they do not correctly describe the true situation. No-one is fooled.

It makes the counter arguments look irrational. And does nothing for the counter Open Street cause.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on May 08, 2021, 06:53:53 PM
I have not owned a car in over 30 years, but certainly understanding the upset over the open street is not difficult.  Having to get out of your car to move the barricade and then to move it back has got to be one big pain in the butt.  Not to mention having to do it in the rain, with an injury, dodging pedestrians, bikes, scooters, strollers all the while.  Further, the complaints with regard to noise seem founded and it seems the additional traffic on surrounding streets has brought congestion and an absurd amount of honking at times.   

I love the open street, but in all truth.......it is absurd.  There's a nice wide sidewalk. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: pipman on May 08, 2021, 11:27:02 PM
Keep dreaming if you think this will be anything like the High Line. Look at the mess that is Diversity Plaza, hardly kept up like the outdoor seating plazas in Manhattan.  Another project supported by Danny Dromm. Last time I walked on 34th Avenue, there seemed to be an increase in vendors--not sure who is regulating that.  One was blaring music.  There is still a lot of thought that needs to go into what will become of the Open Street on 34th Avenue.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on May 08, 2021, 11:35:27 PM
The Highline is highly overrated.  It was great the first few times I visited, but the last time I was there (before the pandemic) it was basically a single file line of people from beginning to end.  What begun as a beautiful idea morphed into a disastrous tourist trap. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 09, 2021, 12:57:14 PM
To each his own.

I think the HIGHLINE is absolutely, positively wonderful.

And it gives me joy each time I visit. Which is often.

I can see that joy is certainly missing in many folks lives.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on May 09, 2021, 02:25:02 PM
It was literally wall to wall people from beginning to end.  Everyone shuffling along........pretending to have an enjoyable experience.    Perhaps it was an absurdly crowded day?  I haven't been back.  I much prefer the waterside parks overlooking the East River in Long Island City or overlooking the Hudson in Manhattan.  And of course, Central Park. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 09, 2021, 05:25:55 PM
It was literally wall to wall people from beginning to end.  Everyone shuffling along........pretending to have an enjoyable experience.    Perhaps it was an absurdly crowded day?  I haven't been back.  I much prefer the waterside parks overlooking the East River in Long Island City or overlooking the Hudson in Manhattan.  And of course, Central Park.

Those other parks are also amazing.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: r on May 09, 2021, 06:57:21 PM
People pay millions to live by the Highline. People pay alot to live in mews in London. People pay to live by a park.

None of those people have given up direct car access to their homes. They don't have to move barricades to drive home, and nobody is yelling at them for driving on their street. No problems with deliveries. They also don't have the same noise pollution issues that 34th is causing.

It amazes me that we are almost 1 year into this and there still hasn't been a poll to see what the residents of 34th actually want. Unless they moved during the pandemic, none of them chose to live on an open street.

For the fans of open streets the ideal seems to be to live near 34th but not on 34th itself

Cars can still enter 34th Ave. No one has lost access. These comments are incorrect and clearly agenda'ed. If folks have gripes against the Open Street perhaps discussing the real situation... And not pretending it is worse than what exists...may be a starting point.

Everyone has walked along the Open 34th Ave countless times in the past year. So I am unsure who folks think they're fooling when they do not correctly describe the true situation. No-one is fooled.

It makes the counter arguments look irrational. And does nothing for the counter Open Street cause.

Sorry, but saying that comments are incorrect does not magically make them incorrect. How are they incorrect?

It is a fact that people now have to move barricades in order to drive on the street.

It is a fact that drivers are yelled at for driving on the street.

It is a fact that people now have problems with deliveries.

It is a fact that noise pollution is causing issues for people who actually live on 34th - which used to be a quiet residential street.

It is a fact that the actual residents of 34th have never been asked what they want to do with their street.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Chingwa on May 09, 2021, 09:04:08 PM
Why is it called open streets if they have to put up barricades?  :o

This temporary experiment seemed like a good way to ameliorate stress in an extreme situation, but it is not good for the community at large as it creates undue choke and traffic problems elsewhere in the neighborhood.  When kids go back to school and people go back to work, it's ultimate reason for existence will be largely nullified.

People who hate cars seem to be the loudest voices in this conversation and I don't think such extreme views are widely shared.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 10, 2021, 01:02:49 PM
Has it come to the situation where pro OPEN 34th Ave posts are now being removed?

Where is Carrefour's very PRO OPEN 34TH AVE post.

Carrefour LIVES on 34th Ave and repudiated the incorrect facts offered by someone else whose agenda is very anti Open 34th Ave.

Again, the bubble of folks that is Anti-34th Ave is in the minority.

Regardless of whether they shoot the messenger.









Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lissagordon on May 10, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
Just because you begin an article with the word Compromise doesn't mean it is. It is more a clear manipulation of the media. 34th Avenue is underused, as an open street. But serves to make life for those of us who actually live on it much more difficult. How has this made the area safer? It seems to me that it has simply caused the rest of the streets in Jackson Heights to become overused, increasing the honking and generally made it more dangerous for pedestrians and drivers alike.

This is largely an immigrant community, if your car is not your livelyhood it is certainly a sign that you have "made it" here, cars
are not going away in Jackson Heights. I also don't think that the DOT should be engaging in city planning which they have proven to be unqualified to do. When you plan to address access for Acess-a Ride and garbage after the closure, you clearly are not qualified to plan.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 10, 2021, 02:11:19 PM
Has it come to the situation where pro OPEN 34th Ave posts are now being removed?

Where is Carrefour's very PRO OPEN 34TH AVE post.

Carrefour LIVES on 34th Ave and repudiated the incorrect facts offered by someone else whose agenda is very anti Open 34th Ave.

Again, the bubble of folks that is Anti-34th Ave is in the minority.

Regardless of whether they shoot the messenger.

You have no idea how many people are against it.  Petitions online do not reflect the majority of what people think of it.  And anyway,  nothing gets decided here. 

Why are you so adamant about the whole thing?  Why is walking in the street so important to you? Did you trip on the sidewalk?

The neighborhood was a designed community when it was built.  There are only two through residential avenues.  You want to close 50% of the traffic lanes.  Like someone said,  it is absurd.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 10, 2021, 02:47:29 PM
Try as folks might, they cannot go against the tide of eco awareness.

The Open Streets are a sign of the future and what's to come.

Regardless whether folks are annoyed that I love the idea of open streets throughout New York...

I believe in the future of eco-awareness. And the Open Streets are an element of that.

Again, you can shoot the messenger. But the message remains unchanged.














Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on May 10, 2021, 09:23:17 PM
Try as folks might, they cannot go against the tide of eco awareness.

The Open Streets are a sign of the future and what's to come.

Regardless whether folks are annoyed that I love the idea of open streets throughout New York...

I believe in the future of eco-awareness. And the Open Streets are an element of that.

Again, you can shoot the messenger. But the message remains unchanged.

 
  It's an attack that this poster seems most interested in as their information is flawed and that has been pointed out repeatedly with the same rejoinders of how they are "the future of ...". I question if this is a good strategy if you really did want Open Streets as a good quality, well-designed community oriented program, which by definition would investigate areas of disagreement and look to solve those issues to the best of their ability.
 Here, it's just pointed, unfounded attacks and some high and mighty conjectures. The DOT says they are listening for now and I don't doubt they are concerned about keeping 34th ave open because they are the group tasked with traffic flow and it's not working very well at the moment. And all kinds of people are tripping over themselves with "designs....for 34th Ave" in a way that is almost comedic but it's not really a funny story. To be continued...
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 11, 2021, 01:12:41 PM


 
  It's an attack that this poster seems most interested in as their information is flawed and that has been pointed out repeatedly with the same rejoinders of how they are "the future of ...". I question if this is a good strategy if you really did want Open Streets as a good quality, well-designed community oriented program, which by definition would investigate areas of disagreement and look to solve those issues to the best of their ability.
 Here, it's just pointed, unfounded attacks and some high and mighty conjectures. The DOT says they are listening for now and I don't doubt they are concerned about keeping 34th ave open because they are the group tasked with traffic flow and it's not working very well at the moment. And all kinds of people are tripping over themselves with "designs....for 34th Ave" in a way that is almost comedic but it's not really a funny story. To be continued...

This paragraph is basically incomprehensible.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: r on May 11, 2021, 03:43:28 PM


 
  It's an attack that this poster seems most interested in as their information is flawed and that has been pointed out repeatedly with the same rejoinders of how they are "the future of ...". I question if this is a good strategy if you really did want Open Streets as a good quality, well-designed community oriented program, which by definition would investigate areas of disagreement and look to solve those issues to the best of their ability.
 Here, it's just pointed, unfounded attacks and some high and mighty conjectures. The DOT says they are listening for now and I don't doubt they are concerned about keeping 34th ave open because they are the group tasked with traffic flow and it's not working very well at the moment. And all kinds of people are tripping over themselves with "designs....for 34th Ave" in a way that is almost comedic but it's not really a funny story. To be continued...

This paragraph is basically incomprehensible.

Just because a paragraph has more than one sentence in it doesn't make it incomprehensible

At this point I have to assume you are a troll
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 11, 2021, 04:17:28 PM
Insults will not change the Open Street situation.

 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Chingwa on May 12, 2021, 11:04:06 AM
Try as folks might, they cannot go against the tide of eco awareness.
The Open Streets are a sign of the future and what's to come.
Regardless whether folks are annoyed that I love the idea of open streets throughout New York...
I believe in the future of eco-awareness. And the Open Streets are an element of that.
Again, you can shoot the messenger. But the message remains unchanged.
This is religious zealotry.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 12, 2021, 11:35:02 AM
Try as folks might, they cannot go against the tide of eco awareness.
The Open Streets are a sign of the future and what's to come.
Regardless whether folks are annoyed that I love the idea of open streets throughout New York...
I believe in the future of eco-awareness. And the Open Streets are an element of that.
Again, you can shoot the messenger. But the message remains unchanged.
This is religious zealotry.

Not quite, I don't really think I'm the Messiah...

But most Millennials are eco-aware. Hence, the future...
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on May 12, 2021, 11:36:50 AM
 But the general consensus, it seems, is that you are a troll.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 12, 2021, 11:39:49 AM
But the general consensus, it seems, is that you are a troll.

Insults don't affect me. They reflect back onto the person who insults.

Though I do understand that it's a challenge for us all... having to face others with opposing opinions.

I remain firmly in the PRO OPEN STREETS. And we will all have to accept that that there are folks who don not agree with that.

But insults won't change anything.



Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 12, 2021, 12:33:38 PM
However, I do think it's important that folks on this forum realize that there is a huge number of folks who support the OPEN STREET.

Otherwise people only hear their own voices echoing their own opinions in their own bubble. Only ever exposed to voices who agree with them.

And so presenting the opposite voice is crucial.

So it's not a shock for those in an echo chamber when decisions are made.



Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on May 12, 2021, 06:45:05 PM
Open Streets is being expanded to include Open Boulevards. In our area, Woodside Ave will be closed between 76th and 78th Streets. DiBlasio must must hate 78th Street!
(I know this isn't new, but I couldn't resist posting a "The Jerk" callback.)
https://abc7ny.com/open-streets-boulevards-streets-restaurants-nyc-dining/10620018/ (https://abc7ny.com/open-streets-boulevards-streets-restaurants-nyc-dining/10620018/)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: PG572 on May 12, 2021, 06:52:30 PM
As a long time JH resident, I am struggling with open streets, I love the outdoors and for many years, have jogged and walked in this area. I own a car, and park on the street like many others. I have seen this neighborhood change throughout the years, and the open streets program has not changed it for the better. It has caused a tremendous amount of traffic in the surrounding areas, more noise, trash on the road and more congestion (people and cars) in the area. There is a great outdoor space on 78 St. that is there to serve our outdoor needs. The sidewalks are quite large and there is plenty of room for everyone. I have been able to run outside with no issue prior to open streets. When kids go back to school and people actually commute back to work, what will be the need? I can guarantee the majority of walkers and people enjoying 34th Ave, don't actually live on 34th Ave. I do and I struggle with even trying to slowly drive on my street. I get dirty looks, cursed at for trying to park, and yelled at for driving. I was under the assumption this was a "shared road", so then share! If there is a driver on the road, we really just want to either park our car, or get out of 34th Ave, so we can sit in traffic elsewhere. I think the people walking and enjoying the street should be fair and see the other side as well. I don't see the benefit, if you want to walk there is plenty of space and there are parks throughout NYC. I don't really see a plan, a major street closed for people to walk? We have sidewalks for that. Metal barricades that block cars? Drivers have to get out and move them, fine, whatever, but sometimes there are 2 which is really obnoxious. For a shared road, it seems really one sided. It's dumb, I think it's pointless and don't see a long term benefit. I will gladly sign a petition for this not to continue. If you want to be eco friendly great, don't get a car, get a bicycle and follow the traffic rules, but don't judge or fault others for making the choice to have a vehicle. I guess DiBlasio will be making more of a mess than he already has by keeping this open.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 12, 2021, 07:14:59 PM
Open Streets is being expanded to include Open Boulevards. In our area, Woodside Ave will be closed between 76th and 78th Streets. DiBlasio must must hate 78th Street!
(I know this isn't new, but I couldn't resist posting a "The Jerk" callback.)
https://abc7ny.com/open-streets-boulevards-streets-restaurants-nyc-dining/10620018/ (https://abc7ny.com/open-streets-boulevards-streets-restaurants-nyc-dining/10620018/)

I think that's great news.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on May 12, 2021, 10:43:36 PM
One more item to consider. Some of the volunteers seem to have had the night off. 72nd St was still closed at 810 pm and 78th St was still closed at 830 pm. What happens if the volunteers no longer want to continue or start making other plans with the city no longer locked down? Who is coordinating the volunteers and how many more will be needed going forward. Time for those clamoring for the Open Streets to put their time where their mouth is.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 12, 2021, 10:58:57 PM
One more item to consider. Some of the volunteers seem to have had the night off. 72nd St was still closed at 810 pm and 78th St was still closed at 830 pm. What happens if the volunteers no longer want to continue or start making other plans with the city no longer locked down? Who is coordinating the volunteers and how many more will be needed going forward. Time for those clamoring for the Open Streets to put their time where their mouth is.

This is done with volunteers? What happens if a volunteer gets hurt? run over by a car, scooter, etc, ... heart attack,... beaten up like what the crazy guy did the other day... Are these volunteers registered or can anyone start moving things in the street, (besides the drivers who move the barriers)?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on May 14, 2021, 02:52:08 PM
Join Us
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 14, 2021, 03:45:54 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lalochezia on May 14, 2021, 08:10:47 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

(https://i.imgflip.com/59ltdq.jpg)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on May 14, 2021, 09:48:22 PM
The #34AveCompromise is not trying to block the open street.

We are working toward a compromise that will give people some open space without destroying the quiet beauty of the avenue and the quality of life for those who live on the avenue.

We are also trying to get all residents to know what is happening and to get their voices heard. That is not happening now.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 14, 2021, 10:21:22 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

(https://i.imgflip.com/59ltdq.jpg)

A couple of years ago I thought it would be a good idea if I posted local news on this site. The moderator did not think so and I sent me a warning email.

I find it curious that when someone does not agree with the open street they are subjected to bullying comments.  This seems to be ok here. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 14, 2021, 10:34:41 PM
how does disagreement constitute "bullying"? i see a lot more anger and aggression in posts from those opposing the idea of open streets, yet i've never played the bullying card.
"
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on May 14, 2021, 11:49:57 PM
The #34AveCompromise is not trying to block the open street.

We are working toward a compromise that will give people some open space without destroying the quiet beauty of the avenue and the quality of life for those who live on the avenue.

We are also trying to get all residents to know what is happening and to get their voices heard. That is not happening now.

I don't think a steady stream of radio playing and honking cars, trucks and suv's and double parked cars and trucks was exactly the epitome of quiet beauty, nor did it do anything to contribute to the quality of life on 34th ave. In fact one of the primary complaints about the 34th ave open street is the "increased" traffic on surrounding streets. Why can't we just go back to the good old days and get some of that silent and tranquil traffic back on the previously serene and peaceful 34th Ave? /S
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 12:42:26 AM

Quote
I don't think a steady stream of radio playing and honking cars, trucks and suv's and double parked cars and trucks was exactly the epitome of quiet beauty, nor did it do anything to contribute to the quality of life on 34th ave. In fact one of the primary complaints about the 34th ave open street is the "increased" traffic on surrounding streets. Why can't we just go back to the good old days and get some of that silent and tranquil traffic back on the previously serene and peaceful 34th Ave? /S

Exactly
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 15, 2021, 09:21:18 AM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 10:02:37 AM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Why?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 10:11:54 AM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Why?
I was born in Queens, so, I do not have a say?

I am a citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am a man, so, I do not have a say?

I am white, so, I do not have a say?

I am a senior citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am gay, so, I do not have a say?

Maybe I should illegally move to another country then I would have a say.

If I sound cranky, perhaps it is because I cannot sleep at night because of the street noise.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 15, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Why?
I was born in Queens, so, I do not have a say?

I am a citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am a man, so, I do not have a say?

I am white, so, I do not have a say?

I am a senior citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am gay, so, I do not have a say?

Maybe I should illegally move to another country then I would have a say.

If I sound cranky, perhaps it is because I cannot sleep at night because of the street noise.

34th Ave is closed to pedestrians and reverts to car traffic at 8pm. Your comment about not being able to sleep makes no sense.  Cranky and complaining about cars on 34th Ave?

Yes, of course everyone has a voice.

But, the idea is that the majority gets its way in a democracy. That's the American experiment.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on May 15, 2021, 11:17:33 AM
The new Streetsfilm video on 34th Ave. Thanks Clarence!
https://vimeo.com/549153207
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 11:55:18 AM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Why?
I was born in Queens, so, I do not have a say?

I am a citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am a man, so, I do not have a say?

I am white, so, I do not have a say?

I am a senior citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am gay, so, I do not have a say?

Maybe I should illegally move to another country then I would have a say.

If I sound cranky, perhaps it is because I cannot sleep at night because of the street noise.

34th Ave is closed to pedestrians and reverts to car traffic at 8pm. Your comment about not being able to sleep makes no sense.  Cranky and complaining about cars on 34th Ave?

Yes, of course everyone has a voice.

But, the idea is that the majority gets its way in a democracy. That's the American experiment.
.

People avoid 34th avenue now because they do not know what is going on. It doesn’t matter what time it is.

America is not an experiment. This is just bullshit that you say to get your way.

No one voted on closing 34th Ave. so it has nothing to do with democracy.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 15, 2021, 12:22:08 PM
75 to 80% of this neighborhood is immigrants.

The immigrants also have a voice. They definitely have the numbers in Jackson Heights.

And they also have a say over Open Streets.

Perhaps, outside of the bubble of folks on this forum, we might guess what the immigrants' view of OPEN STREETS is?

The real truth is that immigrants' voices are the majority in this neighborhood.

Why?
I was born in Queens, so, I do not have a say?

I am a citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am a man, so, I do not have a say?

I am white, so, I do not have a say?

I am a senior citizen, so, I do not have a say?

I am gay, so, I do not have a say?

Maybe I should illegally move to another country then I would have a say.

If I sound cranky, perhaps it is because I cannot sleep at night because of the street noise.

34th Ave is closed to pedestrians and reverts to car traffic at 8pm. Your comment about not being able to sleep makes no sense.  Cranky and complaining about cars on 34th Ave?

Yes, of course everyone has a voice.

But, the idea is that the majority gets its way in a democracy. That's the American experiment.
.

People avoid 34th avenue now because they do not know what is going on. It doesn’t matter what time it is.

America is not an experiment. This is just bullshit that you say to get your way.

No one voted on closing 34th Ave. so it has nothing to do with democracy.

I have learned that arguing with cranky folks, whether online or in life...is ALWAYS fruitless.

Please enjoy your day. Outside, maybe?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lalochezia on May 15, 2021, 01:45:47 PM
Love the website for 34compromise...... Very professional (btw: finish off the blank wix templates....)

Also love that its registrants are shielded.

Registrant:
Organization: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 12410076780
Mailing Address: ON
ISO-3166 Code: CA

Unlike city agencies, private entities have the right to remain anonymous.

But the public - who these entities are trying to influence - should know they are exercising that right.

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 15, 2021, 02:34:47 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 02:39:17 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

Who is this “We” you speak for?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 15, 2021, 02:39:59 PM
Love the website for 34compromise...... Very professional (btw: finish off the blank wix templates....)

Also love that its registrants are shielded.

Registrant:
Organization: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 12410076780
Mailing Address: ON
ISO-3166 Code: CA

Unlike city agencies, private entities have the right to remain anonymous.

But the public - who these entities are trying to influence - should know they are exercising that right.

Thank you so much! But also, why are you so obsessed? Trying to find out my address? You don't see how that is actually very creepy on your part? A lot of people buy privacy protection when buying domains, as I always do. We are very transparent with who we are and what we are doing. We just gave last night a meeting on all this information to our group members. Don't worry about that.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 15, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.


Who is this “We” you speak for?

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 02:44:58 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Who is this “We” you speak for?



I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CJCasanova21 on May 15, 2021, 02:55:47 PM
there's so much anger in the anti-open street group. i was lukewarm in favor of 34th remaining open until the shouting started and pushed me firmly into that camp.
   I feel if you change your stance just because you see how unhappy others are, maybe YOU are the problem. What you said doesn't promote community in the slightest.

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 15, 2021, 02:56:01 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Who is this “We” you speak for?



I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.

You got us confused, we love Target.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CJCasanova21 on May 15, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
I have not owned a car in over 30 years, but certainly understanding the upset over the open street is not difficult.  Having to get out of your car to move the barricade and then to move it back has got to be one big pain in the butt.  Not to mention having to do it in the rain, with an injury, dodging pedestrians, bikes, scooters, strollers all the while.  Further, the complaints with regard to noise seem founded and it seems the additional traffic on surrounding streets has brought congestion and an absurd amount of honking at times.   

I love the open street, but in all truth.......it is absurd.  There's a nice wide sidewalk.

At least there are still people like you <3
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 15, 2021, 02:58:08 PM
there's so much anger in the anti-open street group. i was lukewarm in favor of 34th remaining open until the shouting started and pushed me firmly into that camp.
   I feel if you change your stance just because you see how unhappy others are, maybe YOU are the problem. What you said doesn't promote community in the slightest.

We have over 1,000 residents uniting under the same message. Our stance has always been the same since the conception of 34Compromise. It promotes community to talk and listen to your neighbors and try to work with them for a common goal.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CJCasanova21 on May 15, 2021, 03:03:32 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

LOL WE DO LOVE TARGET!!!! We aren't anti-anything. You people are so narrow-minded when it comes to your neighbors.


Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Who is this “We” you speak for?



I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.

You got us confused, we love Target.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 03:21:55 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

LOL WE DO LOVE TARGET!!!! We aren't anti-anything. You people are so narrow-minded when it comes to your neighbors.


Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Who is this “We” you speak for?



I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.

You got us confused, we love Target.

Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it.  The other politicians then had to be against it.  It was made smaller.  (“Box stores threaten immigrant owned stores.”) The affordable housing above was dropped. (“Poor immigrants can not afford ‘affordable housing.’”) (“Large stores will make the neighborhood crowded.”)

That is how we got a small Target store without a Lays potato chip aisle. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CJCasanova21 on May 15, 2021, 04:38:30 PM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

LOL WE DO LOVE TARGET!!!! We aren't anti-anything. You people are so narrow-minded when it comes to your neighbors.


Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.

The members of 34Compromise, of course.
Who is this “We” you speak for?



I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.

You got us confused, we love Target.

Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it.  The other politicians then had to be against it.  It was made smaller.  (“Box stores threaten immigrant owned stores.”) The affordable housing above was dropped. (“Poor immigrants can not afford ‘affordable housing.’”) (“Large stores will make the neighborhood crowded.”)

That is how we got a small Target store without a Lays potato chip aisle.


Ya learn something new everyday!! I didn't know this! We deserve that potato chip isle!!! Haha!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on May 15, 2021, 05:23:07 PM
Submit your issue with 34th Ave. Open Street

In this space, you will be able to submit any issue that you have experienced in the 34th Avenue Open Street. Please provide certain info: photo (if available), address, date, time, comments, etc.

We will not ask for your personal information, but if you would like an update, please add your contact information in the notes.


https://airtable.com/shrS7UBtYIvKFEGVE?fbclid=IwAR0pvjPpfne72I7LNWTtB_HSFSRhHKkixfgMU0gkJZ6ysZsdconDYTcx9o4
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 15, 2021, 05:56:37 PM
"Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it."

this is gaslighting at its finest. bravo (or brava).
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 06:25:05 PM
"Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it."

this is gaslighting at its finest. bravo (or brava).

what are you talking about?

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 07:08:32 PM
"Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it."

this is gaslighting at its finest. bravo (or brava).

Activists against Target:
The developers originally sought to build a 13-story, luxury residential building with a shopping mall on the lower floors, but withdrew their plans after fierce opposition. Instead, the developers filed plans for the two-story building, to be called The Shoppes....
“I am worried that the store will bring lots more people into our already crowded neighborhood,” said Tania Mattos Jose, a resident and QNU leader in a statement today. “It is going to make it harder to park, to walk on the street and to take the train here.”
https://jacksonheightspost.com/activists-elected-officials-file-lawsuit-to-stop-target-from-coming-to-82nd-street (https://jacksonheightspost.com/activists-elected-officials-file-lawsuit-to-stop-target-from-coming-to-82nd-street)


A representative of Congress Member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez read a letter condemning the developers’ zoning argument.

“I am submitting a letter in support of community demands to stop Target and potential negative effects… this development goes against the spirit and intent of the zoning regulation,” a representative from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s office said.

Queens Neighborhood United, a grass-roots group that has been leading the charge to prevent the development, argues that the Target store would contribute to the displacement of residents and small businesses in the Elmhurst and Jackson Heights area.

https://jacksonheightspost.com/final-decision-concerning-fate-of-82nd-street-target-to-be-made-june-4-bsa
 (https://jacksonheightspost.com/final-decision-concerning-fate-of-82nd-street-target-to-be-made-june-4-bsa)


The site’s developers, the Heskel Group and Sun Equity Partners, shelved their plans for a 13-story building at the location in July after much community opposition, with QNU being their most outspoken critic.

The developers instead decided to pursue their back up project for the site–a two-story building, with a Target originally set to occupy the entirety of the ground floor. The Department of Buildings signed off on the plan in July.
...

The site’s developers, the Heskel Group and Sun Equity Partners, shelved their plans for a 13-story building at the location in July after much community opposition, with QNU being their most outspoken critic.

The developers instead decided to pursue their back up project for the site–a two-story building, with a Target originally set to occupy the entirety of the ground floor. The Department of Buildings signed off on the plan in July.

https://jacksonheightspost.com/queens-neighborhoods-united-brings-fight-against-82nd-street-target-to-new-york-supreme-court (https://jacksonheightspost.com/queens-neighborhoods-united-brings-fight-against-82nd-street-target-to-new-york-supreme-court)

Katz backed the proposal, noting that the development would bring a significant amount of permanently affordable units— 42 in all— to the neighborhood. She gave it her blessing after the developer reached an agreement with Councilmember Francisco Moya to increase the number of affordable units from 36 to 42 units and to lower the income thresholds.

However, Community Board 4 voted against the proposal in March when 36 units were proposed. Several members said at the time that they were concerned that the development would exacerbate gentrification in the neighborhood.

https://jacksonheightspost.com/city-planning-commission-approves-82nd-street-rezoning-with-reservations
 (https://jacksonheightspost.com/city-planning-commission-approves-82nd-street-rezoning-with-reservations)

Community organizations Newtown Civic Association and Queens Neighborhoods United have expressed concerns about the impact of the development on the neighborhood.

The groups argue that the new building would hurt independent retailers, increase street traffic and put additional pressure on public transportation.

The organizations also say that the plans do not include enough affordable housing units and that they would be too expensive given the income levels of Jackson Heights and Elmhurst residents.
https://jacksonheightspost.com/developers-aim-build-13-story-building-former-jackson-heights-cinema-site-seek-rezoning (https://jacksonheightspost.com/developers-aim-build-13-story-building-former-jackson-heights-cinema-site-seek-rezoning)

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 15, 2021, 07:30:40 PM
But, of course, the more important question is whether I should try Pizza Boy.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 15, 2021, 08:26:03 PM
there was never  overwhelming support for Target or the abandoned mass of bricks. local merchants -- largely our neighbors -- were opposed. lots of folks who prefer keeping Cincinnati-ization at bay were opposed. Target is not inherently bad, but it does contribute to the dilution of a neighborhood feel.

and Pizza Boy makes a decent slice. it's no Louie's or Sam's, but it's not bad.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: 34Compromise on May 16, 2021, 02:09:30 AM
shouldn't those opposing the open streets march on another avenue? after all, using the open street seems counter intuitive.

LOL WE DO LOVE TARGET!!!! We aren't anti-anything. You people are so narrow-minded when it comes to your neighbors.


Why would you think it is? We have been saying since the beginning that we do support Open Streets. Compromise means we want it to work better for everyone.


Who is this “We” you speak for?

The members of 34Compromise, of course.

I did not ask for the name you made up.  Who gave you the right to speak for anyone? Are you like that minority (minority= few people) who were against the Target and affordable housing, but calling themselves a neighborhood spokesperson? Your compromises are vague, like your constituency.

You got us confused, we love Target.

Maybe you missed the Target drama.  When it was proposed everyone liked it.  Then, AOC was elected. She came out against it.  The other politicians then had to be against it.  It was made smaller.  (“Box stores threaten immigrant owned stores.”) The affordable housing above was dropped. (“Poor immigrants can not afford ‘affordable housing.’”) (“Large stores will make the neighborhood crowded.”)

That is how we got a small Target store without a Lays potato chip aisle.

I sure don't see how we got to target. We're talking about 34th Avenue and a large group of residents who are having issues with how it currently is. They want a compromise to make it work better for our neighbors, and that is what unites us. End of story.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: r on May 16, 2021, 03:12:36 AM
34th Ave is closed to pedestrians and reverts to car traffic at 8pm. Your comment about not being able to sleep makes no sense.  Cranky and complaining about cars on 34th Ave?

Yes, of course everyone has a voice.

But, the idea is that the majority gets its way in a democracy. That's the American experiment.

Nope.

The founders tried to ensure that everyone's rights were respected, not just the majority.

That is why changes to the constitution require a super-majority and not just a majority, for example. It's also why supreme court membership is for life.

In this case nobody seems to care about the actual residents of 34th, which is quite un-American.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on May 16, 2021, 07:44:05 AM
I'm really struggling with the "compromise" formulation here. 

I completely agree that there needs to be a code of conduct about noise, vendors, etc.  That's true of any park or public space.

But right now we have 100% of the streets in Jackson Heights devoted to taxpayer funded parking and roads for the privileged population in cars to enjoy at everybody else's expense.

Now that we're suggesting that maybe cars could give up one street (just one street!) out of all the streets in our neighborhood, we're told that this is too much and we should "compromise" and only ask for part of one street (or something).

Half of the streets in JH for cars and half for pedestrians/bikes/green space seems like it would be an actual "compromise".
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 09:11:30 AM
I'm really struggling with the "compromise" formulation here. 

I completely agree that there needs to be a code of conduct about noise, vendors, etc.  That's true of any park or public space.

But right now we have 100% of the streets in Jackson Heights devoted to taxpayer funded parking and roads for the privileged population in cars to enjoy at everybody else's expense.

Now that we're suggesting that maybe cars could give up one street (just one street!) out of all the streets in our neighborhood, we're told that this is too much and we should "compromise" and only ask for part of one street (or something).

Half of the streets in JH for cars and half for pedestrians/bikes/green space seems like it would be an actual "compromise".

I do not think anyone would object to giving up one STREET.  But this is one AVENUE.  There are only two avenues that cut through the residential area of JH. It is a shame that it was not better thought out and  ( saying again) that 37th avenue was closed. no driveways, restaurants in street.

How is this for a compromise? Close 34th avenue and use half of the sidewalks in JH for parking.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lalochezia on May 16, 2021, 09:43:19 AM
Love the website for 34compromise...... Very professional (btw: finish off the blank wix templates....)

Also love that its registrants are shielded.

Registrant:
Organization: Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 12410076780
Mailing Address: ON
ISO-3166 Code: CA

Unlike city agencies, private entities have the right to remain anonymous.

But the public - who these entities are trying to influence - should know they are exercising that right.

Thank you so much! But also, why are you so obsessed? Trying to find out my address? You don't see how that is actually very creepy on your part? A lot of people buy privacy protection when buying domains, as I always do. We are very transparent with who we are and what we are doing. We just gave last night a meeting on all this information to our group members. Don't worry about that.

"We are very transparent with who we are and what we are doing."

Yet, the public facing web account of 34avecompromise says Don't worry about that. when asked
who. they. are. but they "told their members"

I'm not worried at all. Neighbors should be though.

Sounds classically similar to the response of an astroturfing organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Who funds you?  Who founded you?

(And let's be clear: no-one should be doxxed as a private individual on this site - or others -  but if you set up a public-facing pressure group, claiming to speak for some tranche of people, the public have a right to know about the origins behind 'grassroots' organizations...or know they are set up anonymously)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on May 16, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
  We have THE WRONG STREET for JH Open Streets. It should be 37th Avenue which might in some way compare to the only other closure that most people consider "successful" in NYC. This is Vanderbilt Ave in Brooklyn which is a commercial street!!! Not a residential street like 34th Ave. On 37th Ave, there are places to dine and meet up with people, amenities already exist on 37th ave and most importantly, we would be supporting our beloved restaurant and business community which is in high need right now. The lunacy of using 34th Ave for Open Streets and making it into something it doesn't want to be, is a travesty. Luckily, NYC Parks and DOT are not moving quickly so time will provide some interesting answers on use and who is doing the long term maintenance and who is patrolling the misbehavior, etc.

  Let's come to our senses here and move this to 37th Ave and make it right for all of the Jackson Heights community in the long term. We need to consider all of our residents and businesses here.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on May 16, 2021, 02:55:37 PM
Open Street on 37th Ave. will provide for great space for our great local resturants and a wonderful mall like the big shopping centers people run to.

The hours would need to be adjusted so the stores can recieve deliveries perhaps noon to 9pm.

Sound sensational!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
Open Street on 37th Ave. will provide for great space for our great local resturants and a wonderful mall like the big shopping centers people run to.

The hours would need to be adjusted so the stores can recieve deliveries perhaps noon to 9pm.

Sound sensational!


I think if there are truck loading/unloading zones at every cross street off of 37th avenue deliveries will not be a problem.  Several large stores have delivery doors on the side street already. (Foodtown, and Food Dynasty)

If 34th street is closed, the city may have to pay all of the building owners for the right to the street.  37th avenue has no driveways, so no one is losing access.


https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/interim-design-strategies/temporary-street-closures/ (https://nacto.org/publication/urban-street-design-guide/interim-design-strategies/temporary-street-closures/)

https://grrhpc.com/publications/street-closings/ (https://grrhpc.com/publications/street-closings/)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 16, 2021, 04:45:55 PM
no one is losing access to any driveways. people turn onto 34th all the time from every side street and from the buildings that have garages. people can't drive multiple blocks, but not a single person has lost access. i've seen Access a Ride, Uber, private cars and emergency vehicles use the street. this argument does not hold up.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 05:30:42 PM
no one is losing access to any driveways. people turn onto 34th all the time from every side street and from the buildings that have garages. people can't drive multiple blocks, but not a single person has lost access. i've seen Access a Ride, Uber, private cars and emergency vehicles use the street. this argument does not hold up.

The lawyers will make a lot of money on this.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 16, 2021, 07:40:30 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 08:23:00 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Abusive
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ClydeM on May 16, 2021, 08:44:35 PM
My god, you are all absolutely hilarious. I don't fully understand how the fate of 34th Ave has become such a hot button topic when there are so many other issues that need to be dealt with, but here we are. In the mean time, the stack of drunks outside of the former Burger King on 82nd has grown from five to ten (great welcome to the neighborhood). I would gladly sign the petition if it included a plan to deal with larger issues that will have a much greater impact on the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 16, 2021, 09:27:24 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Abusive

I did not mean to be abusive. I apologize if it was taken as such.

I am trying to think about this issue from both sides...and attempting to understand why it's so polarized.

Is it the polarized times we live in?



Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 09:30:08 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Abusive

I did not mean to be abusive. I apologize if it was taken as such.

I am trying to think about this issue from both sides...and attempting to understand why it's so polarized.

Is it the polarized times we live in?

No, it is the car noise.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 16, 2021, 09:54:17 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Abusive

I did not mean to be abusive. I apologize if it was taken as such.

I am trying to think about this issue from both sides...and attempting to understand why it's so polarized.

Is it the polarized times we live in?

No, it is the car noise.

The car noise on streets other than 34th Ave I am assuming. During the day to 8pm?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 16, 2021, 10:00:34 PM
To forward their agendas, folks are pretending that the situation is much worse for cars than it truly is.

But that approach isn't going to be successful.

Lies never do work out.

A recent election showed us that.
Abusive

I did not mean to be abusive. I apologize if it was taken as such.

I am trying to think about this issue from both sides...and attempting to understand why it's so polarized.

Is it the polarized times we live in?

No, it is the car noise.

The car noise on streets other than 34th Ave I am assuming. During the day to 8pm?

Yes on 35th avenue
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 17, 2021, 08:28:37 AM
Is it the noise of the traffic you are complaining about? I am assuming so.

Electric cars make no noise.

I suppose, in the future, technology, as we transition to electric cars, is the way for that problem to be solved.



Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 17, 2021, 08:56:08 AM
Is it the noise of the traffic you are complaining about? I am assuming so.

Electric cars make no noise.

I suppose, in the future, technology, as we transition to electric cars, is the way for that problem to be solved.

Yes, and I hope they remove the horns. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hum@njukebox1 on May 17, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
The honking is the problem.  I doubt many people are bothered by the sound of a car driving by their building.  Most cars are very quiet today.  When riding my bike, I cannot hear a car coming from behind until it is right on top of me.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 17, 2021, 09:25:25 AM
Ok, well at least it's clear, finally.

As a New Yorker, I have never driven a car, so I have no idea about them.
Driving a car in New York always struck me as an endless headache. Road tolls, stuck in traffic, no parking, moving them on certain days and times, etc, etc.  All leading to road rage.

It's the honking.

Honking can be banned and honkers fined, I assume.





Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jh35 on May 17, 2021, 09:52:49 AM
Ok, well at least it's clear, finally.

As a New Yorker, I have never driven a car, so I have no idea about them.
Driving a car in New York always struck me as an endless headache. Road tolls, stuck in traffic, no parking, moving them on certain days and times, etc, etc.  All leading to road rage.

It's the honking.

Honking can be banned and honkers fined, I assume.

Honking is against the law.  This neighborhood used to have no honking signs which said you could get a fine.  They were removed to “unclutter” the streets. 

https://news.yahoo.com/nyc-pulling-down-dont-honk-signs-110312732.html (https://news.yahoo.com/nyc-pulling-down-dont-honk-signs-110312732.html)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 17, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
the fine was (and may still be) $350. i'd be willing to bet the NYPD hasn't issued a single ticket for honking anywhere in Queens in 2021. too bad, that would be a great source of income.

edit to add: we had one of those signs on the light pole right outside our living room window. the honking was constant, even when a police car was parked at the corner.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lalochezia on May 17, 2021, 10:09:40 AM
First honk a warning - with a sigh
Second honk a fine -  you noisy guy
Third honk?? a droning - from the sky

am available for slam poetry and law writin'
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on May 17, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
Well, if a $350 fine is imposed on honkers for a week, I would say that problem will be quickly eliminated.

And other drivers afflicted with Road Rage will hear about it. And stop their honking.

The press would certainly pick up that story.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on May 17, 2021, 04:30:09 PM
well the signs were up for nearly two decades.

the law still exists.

what incentive is there to enforce?

i agree with you. i think that every violator should be punished, and cars impounded if need be. but can we make it happen?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: pipman on May 17, 2021, 06:08:37 PM
Yes, addressing the many other issues in the neighborhood vs. only focusing on the Open Street would be great.  As someone mentioned, there are now about 10 homeless in front of Burger King on 82nd Street, doesn't seem any of our leaders think that is an issue.  When I last passed by they were drunk, aggressive and it seemed like piss on the Street.  The honking and noise on surrounding Streets has become worse since 34th Avenue has been closed--the worse noise du jour IMO is from loud (and illegal) dirt bikes zooming by at all hours.  Does our precinct patrol or do anything about this?  I read in other areas they confiscate these illegal vehicles--all the people hating cars don't seem to have an issue with this. 

Passed by the Open Street today around noon, a beautiful day and looked up and down the Street and saw few people.  I am not opposed to an Open Street, perhaps weekends make the most sense, as well as folks who think a commercial street, such as 37th Avenue would make sense to help restaurants.  Also wondering when we get back to parades in the neighborhood --will they now be on 34th Avenue, or do we end up closing both 37th and 34th--definitely would pack up then, as 35th Avenue would be a horror.  Hope we can get to a compromise that makes quality of life better for all constituents.   
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hfm on May 17, 2021, 06:22:51 PM
Is there somewhere to go to read about the proposed detailed plan for this? I see this as a net negative for the entire neighborhood but I don't want to make any assumptions without seeing what the proposed plan is for how this is supposed to actually be operationalized.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on May 17, 2021, 10:23:21 PM
well the signs were up for nearly two decades.

the law still exists.

what incentive is there to enforce?

i agree with you. i think that every violator should be punished, and cars impounded if need be. but can we make it happen?

The practical but unlikely solution is to mandate that car horns are just as loud inside the car as they are outside. For the majority of people, that would curtail honking except for when absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: flt on June 02, 2021, 09:12:52 PM
I love living on the open street and the only noise I hear is from car radios in the cross streets. It's used constantly. I have video of 28 people using it within a minute's worth of time around 5pm and I'm happy to share it with pro-open street forces. Now I'll be sure to take more video at different times just to document it for the linear park forces.

People are selfish and resistant to change. While access for disabled people and emergency vehicles should be taken into account, cars shouldn't take precedence over people. (And I'm a car owner.)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 03, 2021, 07:47:59 AM
Quote
Is there somewhere to go to read about the proposed detailed plan for this?

Keep an eye on the CB3 calendar. The Dept of Transportation was supposed to present their plan for 34th Ave Open Street a week or so ago, but the meeting was canceled. http://www.cb3qn.nyc.gov/ (http://www.cb3qn.nyc.gov/)

The Compromise group leaders have been misrepresenting a proposal from an advocacy group (TransAlt) to reduce street parking city-wide as a plan to eliminate all parking on 34th Avenue. So, that tells you something.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on June 03, 2021, 11:36:45 AM
 According to the DOT people, they consider one of their most successful change of use in streets is the area around Broadway and 23rd Street near Madison Park in Manhattan. And it has been TWEAKED MANY TIMES which they say is necessary to have a well functioning traffic pattern for walking, cycling, wheelchairs, buses, Ubers, Amazon and loads of personal vehicles.

  Why can't the same conversation happen here? I fear the all or nothing group that Open Streets must stay open 7 days, 12 hrs and for all 26 blocks are not being reasonable regarding the needs and desires of all parties in this community. No one wants to have this level of meanness going on here in Jackson Heights and a compromise conversation is desperately needed!!!!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 04, 2021, 11:04:32 AM
Quote
Why can't the same conversation happen here? I fear the all or nothing group that Open Streets must stay open 7 days, 12 hrs and for all 26 blocks are not being reasonable regarding the needs and desires of all parties in this community. No one wants to have this level of meanness going on here in Jackson Heights and a compromise conversation is desperately needed!!!!

The conversation is happening here. There have been many, many opportunities for people to share their concerns and hopes for the space with DoT. There have been visioning sessions, in-person meetings with residents along 34th Avenue, community board meetings, etc. DoT has said they are planning multi-lingual meetings as well. The groups that want to keep it 12 hours a day/7 days a week, as well as the groups calling for permanent design changes to the space that could potentially eliminate the need for barricades, are all advocating for their position. The group that is calling for a reduction in length and hours is hardly unheard. There is a conversation happening right now.

The redesign DoT is presenting isn't going to be the final design. Like you say, other spaces have had continual tweaks, and I don't know why anyone would assume 34th Ave OS would not also have continual tweaks until it reaches its final form, whatever and whenever that is.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on June 04, 2021, 12:37:55 PM
Quote
Why can't the same conversation happen here? I fear the all or nothing group that Open Streets must stay open 7 days, 12 hrs and for all 26 blocks are not being reasonable regarding the needs and desires of all parties in this community. No one wants to have this level of meanness going on here in Jackson Heights and a compromise conversation is desperately needed!!!!

The conversation is happening here. There have been many, many opportunities for people to share their concerns and hopes for the space with DoT. There have been visioning sessions, in-person meetings with residents along 34th Avenue, community board meetings, etc. DoT has said they are planning multi-lingual meetings as well. The groups that want to keep it 12 hours a day/7 days a week, as well as the groups calling for permanent design changes to the space that could potentially eliminate the need for barricades, are all advocating for their position. The group that is calling for a reduction in length and hours is hardly unheard. There is a conversation happening right now.

The redesign DoT is presenting isn't going to be the final design. Like you say, other spaces have had continual tweaks, and I don't know why anyone would assume 34th Ave OS would not also have continual tweaks until it reaches its final form, whatever and whenever that is.

Yes, I agree. The conversation is happening here and in other places.

Are folks getting confused?  Because they are not getting their own way? Because there are many voices in opposition to how they think?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on June 04, 2021, 01:48:51 PM
See quotes below from todays New York Times, and yes it is clear people are having a conversation but they are hesitating about the word compromise. And yet, that is clearly what is needed here on 34th Avenue with the street closures. Just like with the vaccine rollout, we should be mindful of who runs up to the mic to speak and who is hesitant and has real questions but is fearful of backlash. Read below as clearly, the politicians are walking a tightrope on this issue. JH is not a transit desert but many people and businesses and school have vehicle based needs here and do not feel they are being  given the same platform to speak freely without some snark or name calling. If it was so clearly a win for everyone why aren't any of the mayoral candidates saying so??

“People talk about streets in the context of the future of the city and what the city will look like,” said George Arzt, a political consultant and former press secretary to Mayor Edward I. Koch. “They want more parks and bike lanes. They want a better quality of life.”

Still, the issue becomes “a real migraine for candidates,” Mr. Arzt added, because the next mayor will have to strike a balance between the push for a more livable city and the daily demands of businesses, emergency services and New Yorkers who depend on cars to get around, especially in transit deserts outside Manhattan.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on June 04, 2021, 02:27:57 PM
Quote
See quotes below from todays New York Times, and yes it is clear people are having a conversation but they are hesitating about the word compromise.

I don't even understand this point. The compromise group isn't hesitating about using the nebulous word compromise, while they simultaneously call for reduced hours and reduced length of OS, and also have a petition that is essentially a laundry list of complaints with no real solutions offered.

Quote
And yet, that is clearly what is needed here on 34th Avenue with the street closures.

That's an opinion, and not "clearly what is needed" given the widespread support for 34 OS. People have different opinions, and that's okay. That's why I'm glad the gadflys who expressed their hatred for OS online for months finally organized themselves to start giving their feedback to DoT.

Quote
Are folks getting confused?  Because they are not getting their own way? Because there are many voices in opposition to how they think?

Mostly I think this is accurate. There seems to be an idea held by a few that all the different camps should come together to hash out a compromise, rather than advocate for their POV with the actual decision makers.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on June 06, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
Alfonso wants the residents to be heard!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: carrefour_ny on June 06, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
Well said, CaptainFlannel!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: petegart on August 07, 2021, 03:09:49 PM
I saw the barricades on Northern Blvd today (Saturday Aug 7th 2021)
It looks like the Annual Ecuadorian Day Parade will take place on Sunday, and I believe this means that 34th Ave will be open for traffic. 
I am anxious to see how this works out.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on August 10, 2021, 03:17:39 PM
^good thread to include this on. It looks like the Compromise Group (and now the OS Resisters), lobbied the 115 to shut down OS because of the parade. Except of course, the problem is that the OS Program was passed and signed in to law by the City Council and the mayor, so therefore the police department can't just modify OS whenever it wants (save for example a true emergency situation such as a chemical spill), and seems like they were reminded of that requiring an abrupt about face on their announced street closure (opening?) of 34 OS.

My understanding is DoT runs the program and determines when to shut down Open Streets (like for plowing), and it looks like they aren't inclined to do so for parades.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on August 13, 2021, 10:43:04 AM
 I seems plausible that somehow, someday, a true analysis of use vs. desire will come to fruition here with the DOT. Looking through cameras, aerial and on ground and seeing the actual traffic patterns will reveal what is plausible with the excessive 8am- 8pm closure during the pandemic and the impact to the whole neighborhood.
 On a separate note- is it time to revisit our crappy sidewalks in JH? Some are horrendous and no wonder walking in the street is preferred for that aspect. Could be fixed maybe with infrastructure bill??
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ChickenringNYC on August 19, 2021, 08:14:31 PM
I have a hard time believing people who say they actually live on the open street and don't find it a noisy nuisance. I live two avenues away and I'm against it because, contrary to whomever says the open street is about favoring peds and bikes, open streets robs us of a bike lane. The bike lane on 34th Street is completely non-functional if it's blocked by people, vehicles, dirt bikes, kids on tricycles, yoga sessions, etc. As vendors roll in and people start setting up lawn chairs on the median, it's becoming less and less of an urban oasis and more like a neighborhood blight. Do it on the weekends! Rest of the time, give us back the bike lane and let people actually maneuver around. I would hate to have spent my life savings to buy a quiet apartment on 34th Ave only to face this. Just one NYers opinion.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 19, 2021, 08:26:52 PM
I have a hard time believing people who say they actually live on the open street and don't find it a noisy nuisance. I live two avenues away and I'm against it because, contrary to whomever says the open street is about favoring peds and bikes, open streets robs us of a bike lane. The bike lane on 34th Street is completely non-functional if it's blocked by people, vehicles, dirt bikes, kids on tricycles, yoga sessions, etc. As vendors roll in and people start setting up lawn chairs on the median, it's becoming less and less of an urban oasis and more like a neighborhood blight. Do it on the weekends! Rest of the time, give us back the bike lane and let people actually maneuver around. I would hate to have spent my life savings to buy a quiet apartment on 34th Ave only to face this. Just one NYers opinion.

On the other hand, folks are buying apartments because those apartments are situated on the Open Streets. How wonderfully diverse human nature is, right?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ClydeM on August 19, 2021, 09:27:07 PM
How about a petition to reduce crime, clean up Roosevelt, or actually deal with the many other more important issues facing our community? I like having 34th Ave open and I use it all the time, but there are far more important things to deal with around here.

I'm really starting to believe that open streets has become such a hot button topic because it offers an easy way to ignore the larger problems facing our neighborhood, while still making it seem like people are concerned for the well being of the community. If as much energy was directed to the larger problems, we might actually be able to solve them. But NO, wE MusT DiReCt AAALLLL of oUr EnErgY TOWARDS 34th AVE oPeN StrEEEETs!!!!!

You know what really causes issues with our quality of life? Bands of drunks on 82nd and in front of the post office, the human trafficking issues associated with prostitution on Roosevelt (this is well documented), illegal bars that operate in the basements on Roosevelt, 37th, and 90th, the increase in gang activity, and the fact that people like to get shooty and stabby above 90th (I know most people here don't care about that because many of you rarely cross 82nd).

I mean, seriously; all of this is going on and the most pressing issue is 34th Ave open streets? Y'all need to get a grip on what's going on around here. In short, if your main concern is 34th Ave (no matter your position) you aren't concerned with the neighborhood as a whole.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 19, 2021, 10:38:15 PM
How about a petition to reduce crime, clean up Roosevelt, or actually deal with the many other more important issues facing our community? I like having 34th Ave open and I use it all the time, but there are far more important things to deal with around here.

I'm really starting to believe that open streets has become such a hot button topic because it offers an easy way to ignore the larger problems facing our neighborhood, while still making it seem like people are concerned for the well being of the community. If as much energy was directed to the larger problems, we might actually be able to solve them. But NO, wE MusT DiReCt AAALLLL of oUr EnErgY TOWARDS 34th AVE oPeN StrEEEETs!!!!!

You know what really causes issues with our quality of life? Bands of drunks on 82nd and in front of the post office, the human trafficking issues associated with prostitution on Roosevelt (this is well documented), illegal bars that operate in the basements on Roosevelt, 37th, and 90th, the increase in gang activity, and the fact that people like to get shooty and stabby above 90th (I know most people here don't care about that because many of you rarely cross 82nd).

I mean, seriously; all of this is going on and the most pressing issue is 34th Ave open streets? Y'all need to get a grip on what's going on around here. In short, if your main concern is 34th Ave (no matter your position) you aren't concerned with the neighborhood as a whole.
This is an interesting observation. It does appear that the only 'safe' topic is the 34th Ave open street.

Possibly because the other issues you mention might include immigration and undocumented aspects?

And maybe those topics are taboo?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ClydeM on August 19, 2021, 11:58:03 PM
How about a petition to reduce crime, clean up Roosevelt, or actually deal with the many other more important issues facing our community? I like having 34th Ave open and I use it all the time, but there are far more important things to deal with around here.

I'm really starting to believe that open streets has become such a hot button topic because it offers an easy way to ignore the larger problems facing our neighborhood, while still making it seem like people are concerned for the well being of the community. If as much energy was directed to the larger problems, we might actually be able to solve them. But NO, wE MusT DiReCt AAALLLL of oUr EnErgY TOWARDS 34th AVE oPeN StrEEEETs!!!!!

You know what really causes issues with our quality of life? Bands of drunks on 82nd and in front of the post office, the human trafficking issues associated with prostitution on Roosevelt (this is well documented), illegal bars that operate in the basements on Roosevelt, 37th, and 90th, the increase in gang activity, and the fact that people like to get shooty and stabby above 90th (I know most people here don't care about that because many of you rarely cross 82nd).

I mean, seriously; all of this is going on and the most pressing issue is 34th Ave open streets? Y'all need to get a grip on what's going on around here. In short, if your main concern is 34th Ave (no matter your position) you aren't concerned with the neighborhood as a whole.
This is an interesting observation. It does appear that the only 'safe' topic is the 34th Ave open street.

Possibly because the other issues you mention might include immigration and undocumented aspects?

And maybe those topics are taboo?

The people who run illegal bars are also running legitimate businesses that are well established, so my guess is that they are here legally. The other things could be a grab bag.

I personally don't care about someone's immigration status as long as they aren't acting like jerks. Also, the statistics show that the undocumented tend to lay low, and this is in line with my own experience. I think that it's easier to focus on open streets, which is largely inconsequential, instead of the real problems facing our community.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ChickenringNYC on August 20, 2021, 12:00:36 AM
I have a hard time believing people who say they actually live on the open street and don't find it a noisy nuisance. I live two avenues away and I'm against it because, contrary to whomever says the open street is about favoring peds and bikes, open streets robs us of a bike lane. The bike lane on 34th Street is completely non-functional if it's blocked by people, vehicles, dirt bikes, kids on tricycles, yoga sessions, etc. As vendors roll in and people start setting up lawn chairs on the median, it's becoming less and less of an urban oasis and more like a neighborhood blight. Do it on the weekends! Rest of the time, give us back the bike lane and let people actually maneuver around. I would hate to have spent my life savings to buy a quiet apartment on 34th Ave only to face this. Just one NYers opinion.

On the other hand, folks are buying apartments because those apartments are situated on the Open Streets. How wonderfully diverse human nature is, right?

Perhaps they'll end up regretting that in a year, or else, their actual apartment windows might not face the street.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on August 20, 2021, 03:58:44 AM
How about a petition to reduce crime, clean up Roosevelt, or actually deal with the many other more important issues facing our community? I like having 34th Ave open and I use it all the time, but there are far more important things to deal with around here.
Go ahead. Start one. While you're at it, post in one of the other threads already existing regarding these issues.
There's no need to belittle a topic that a group like this may actually be able to impact just because we're not solving poverty, hunger and other more important issues.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 20, 2021, 09:16:38 AM
Probably the truth is that Jackson Heights is divided into two separated populations. The Historic District and environs and the rest of Jackson Heights.

I suppose folks in the Historic District don't particularly care about what happens in the rest of Jackson Heights. Drugs, 'massages' and gangs. Etc.  As long as these urban crimes don't impinge on the Historic District.

But the Open Street of 34th Ave appears to mix up the situation. The rest of Jackson Heights is encouraged to enjoy the Historic District with the Open Street.

And maybe that's why the topic is such a hot potato?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Shelby2 on August 20, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
I have a hard time believing people who say they actually live on the open street and don't find it a noisy nuisance. I live two avenues away and I'm against it because, contrary to whomever says the open street is about favoring peds and bikes, open streets robs us of a bike lane. The bike lane on 34th Street is completely non-functional if it's blocked by people, vehicles, dirt bikes, kids on tricycles, yoga sessions, etc. As vendors roll in and people start setting up lawn chairs on the median, it's becoming less and less of an urban oasis and more like a neighborhood blight. Do it on the weekends! Rest of the time, give us back the bike lane and let people actually maneuver around. I would hate to have spent my life savings to buy a quiet apartment on 34th Ave only to face this. Just one NYers opinion.

I agree with you. I'm not really for or against open streets. I just feel a lot of sympathy for anyone whose windows or building entrance faces 34th Ave. They have to deal with events like this - take a look at where that speaker is going to be, right in front of someone's living room or bedroom window. This is not an isolated event. There's also a theatre group performing in the same or similar location a few days before this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/QWzddEb.jpg)

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 20, 2021, 12:19:32 PM
I have a hard time believing people who say they actually live on the open street and don't find it a noisy nuisance. I live two avenues away and I'm against it because, contrary to whomever says the open street is about favoring peds and bikes, open streets robs us of a bike lane. The bike lane on 34th Street is completely non-functional if it's blocked by people, vehicles, dirt bikes, kids on tricycles, yoga sessions, etc. As vendors roll in and people start setting up lawn chairs on the median, it's becoming less and less of an urban oasis and more like a neighborhood blight. Do it on the weekends! Rest of the time, give us back the bike lane and let people actually maneuver around. I would hate to have spent my life savings to buy a quiet apartment on 34th Ave only to face this. Just one NYers opinion.

I agree with you. I'm not really for or against open streets. I just feel a lot of sympathy for anyone whose windows or building entrance faces 34th Ave. They have to deal with events like this - take a look at where that speaker is going to be, right in front of someone's living room or bedroom window. This is not an isolated event. There's also a theatre group performing in the same or similar location a few days before this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/QWzddEb.jpg)

We have to be fair. We have to also complain about Xmas carols being sung outside the living and bedroom windows of people all over New York during December.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on August 20, 2021, 02:28:00 PM
 It seems fair to have a period of time, such as some of the winter months, to close 34th Ave Open Streets during the week and see if the weekends are enough of a respite for people. Those folks who live on 34th Ave were ambushed with the 7day, 12hr closure and they could use
break!! The much lower use in the winter doesn't warrant this many hours and please use cameras for data to verify usage.
 Compromise please.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: auxbarricades on August 21, 2021, 02:01:25 PM
Ugh, I wanted to stay out of this thread because it's so toxic but since a lot of people seem to be speaking for the folks who live on 34th Ave. to push their own agenda, I'll speak up. I live on 34th Ave. facing the street next to Travers, no less! Open Streets is a godsend. I wouldn't have it any other way. 34th Ave should be free of car traffic all day, year round. I won't be reading your cranky responses.

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 21, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Ugh, I wanted to stay out of this thread because it's so toxic but since a lot of people seem to be speaking for the folks who live on 34th Ave. to push their own agenda, I'll speak up. I live on 34th Ave. facing the street next to Travers, no less! Open Streets is a godsend. I wouldn't have it any other way. 34th Ave should be free of car traffic all day, year round. I won't be reading your cranky responses.

Hooray for someone legitimately able to speak on this issue!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on August 22, 2021, 12:38:17 PM
Ugh, I wanted to stay out of this thread because it's so toxic but since a lot of people seem to be speaking for the folks who live on 34th Ave. to push their own agenda, I'll speak up. I live on 34th Ave. facing the street next to Travers, no less! Open Streets is a godsend. I wouldn't have it any other way. 34th Ave should be free of car traffic all day, year round. I won't be reading your cranky responses.

Hooray for someone legitimately able to speak on this issue!
I live on 78th St. Are you saying my concerns are not legitimate?
Truth be told, this is a minor nuisance that can be fixed with some effort. There's no need to ignore other residents' concerns because you don't share them. Open Streets provides me no benefit. My daily walks on 34th Ave can easily be completed on the sidewalk.
Most of the people I observe using the Ave on weekdays are bicycle riders and people using electric vehicles like scooters and mopeds, as well as a few joggers. The volume of pedestrian traffic is very low. The only real use if the Open Streets I've seen recently was for the summer day camp, which appears to have ended. I've never seen more pedestrians in the actual road than would fit comfortably on the sidewalk. This level of usage hardly qualifies as a godsend.
Try to resolve people's concerns and most complaints will fade away.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 22, 2021, 05:31:38 PM
Ugh, I wanted to stay out of this thread because it's so toxic but since a lot of people seem to be speaking for the folks who live on 34th Ave. to push their own agenda, I'll speak up. I live on 34th Ave. facing the street next to Travers, no less! Open Streets is a godsend. I wouldn't have it any other way. 34th Ave should be free of car traffic all day, year round. I won't be reading your cranky responses.

Hooray for someone legitimately able to speak on this issue!
I live on 78th St. Are you saying my concerns are not legitimate?
Truth be told, this is a minor nuisance that can be fixed with some effort. There's no need to ignore other residents' concerns because you don't share them. Open Streets provides me no benefit. My daily walks on 34th Ave can easily be completed on the sidewalk.
Most of the people I observe using the Ave on weekdays are bicycle riders and people using electric vehicles like scooters and mopeds, as well as a few joggers. The volume of pedestrian traffic is very low. The only real use if the Open Streets I've seen recently was for the summer day camp, which appears to have ended. I've never seen more pedestrians in the actual road than would fit comfortably on the sidewalk. This level of usage hardly qualifies as a godsend.
Try to resolve people's concerns and most complaints will fade away.

So many folks speaking for those who live on 34th Ave...it’s GREAT to have someone who really lives there. Hooray!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on August 26, 2021, 06:49:28 PM
 Many of the folks posting here legit live on 34th Ave. Funny that this would be the issue!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 26, 2021, 10:54:26 PM
Many of the folks posting here legit live on 34th Ave. Funny that this would be the issue!

Who besides auxbarricades lives on 34th Ave?

My observation is that many who don't live on 34th Ave are speaking, often incorrectly, for those who do.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Di_11372 on August 27, 2021, 09:29:17 AM
I live on 34th ave. I'm in favor of the open street,  but I know it can be better, one issue obviously being that bikers need a designated lane, for everyone's safety. I also believe the hours being reduced in the winter months is a reasonable request.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: PG572 on August 28, 2021, 09:47:48 AM
I live o 34th Ave, facing Open Streets. It has done nothing but cause more headaches...parking nightmares, trash, traffic, and everyone that has an opinion (especially those not for it) face backlash. Sorry, but open streets has not done anything to improve quality of life. Most days it's empty so I struggle to see the payoff. If you want to improve the quality of life in all of JH, look at 82ND ST. Pay attention to the areas outside of the Historic District.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 28, 2021, 01:43:08 PM
I suppose at its core, the conflict about Open Streets is really about car-lovers vs the car-free.

And this microcosm of disagreement is really an example of where cities are heading. The future of cities. Towards far more pedestrian access. Congestion pricing. Pro bicycling. Many more car-free streets planned in Manhattan etc.

And those who are pro-cars aren't happy about it.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: jadasie on August 28, 2021, 03:39:43 PM
I’m not sure most car-owners would call themselves “car lovers.” It’s just for some of us getting out of the city, or around the city with a pet, is nearly impossible without a car. I also regularly bike, and there’s nothing “pro bicycling” about the open 34th Ave as it eliminates the one true east-west bike lane and replaces it with an obstacle course.

Jackson Heights desperately needs open space—and I’m happy to see people make the best of 34th ave—but wouldn’t 37th ave be the smarter street to close down (to non commercial traffic)? The sidewalks there are horribly overcrowded, and double parking is a mess that brings traffic to a halt anyway. Why not open it up, give the restaurants more outdoor breathing room, allow for more room to roam, and more space to play and hang out?

I suppose at its core, the conflict about Open Streets is really about car-lovers vs the car-free.

And this microcosm of disagreement is really an example of where cities are heading. The future of cities. Towards far more pedestrian access. Congestion pricing. Pro bicycling. Many more car-free streets planned in Manhattan etc.

And those who are pro-cars aren't happy about it.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: worldwidedeb on August 28, 2021, 11:39:58 PM
@abcdefghijk, following your logic, I'd say the controversy is between "excessive-noise haters" and "excessive-noise lovers." 
 

Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 29, 2021, 09:56:11 AM
@abcdefghijk, following your logic, I'd say the controversy is between "excessive-noise haters" and "excessive-noise lovers."

My logic is to listen to what those who live on 34th Ave are saying. And not to those with their own agendas... but who don't live on 34th Ave yet are speaking loudly for those who do.

So far it's very interesting.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on August 29, 2021, 10:16:16 AM
@abcdefghijk, following your logic, I'd say the controversy is between "excessive-noise haters" and "excessive-noise lovers."

My logic is to listen to what those who live on 34th Ave are saying. And not to those with their own agendas... but who don't live on 34th Ave yet are speaking loudly for those who do.

So far it's very interesting.
Everyone who lives in the neighborhood is affected by this, not just those who live on 34th Ave. Some receive a benefit, some are inconvenienced.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 29, 2021, 10:41:10 AM


@abcdefghijk, following your logic, I'd say the controversy is between "excessive-noise haters" and "excessive-noise lovers."

My logic is to listen to what those who live on 34th Ave are saying. And not to those with their own agendas... but who don't live on 34th Ave yet are speaking loudly for those who do.

So far it's very interesting.
Everyone who lives in the neighborhood is affected by this, not just those who live on 34th Ave. Some receive a benefit, some are inconvenienced.

Thanks. But I remain free to use my own logic.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: theplanesland on August 29, 2021, 11:10:12 AM
Jackson Heights desperately needs open space—and I’m happy to see people make the best of 34th ave—but wouldn’t 37th ave be the smarter street to close down (to non commercial traffic)? The sidewalks there are horribly overcrowded, and double parking is a mess that brings traffic to a halt anyway. Why not open it up, give the restaurants more outdoor breathing room, allow for more room to roam, and more space to play and hang out?

37th Avenue can't be closed because key major 37th Avenue business owners are steadfastly against it. The ones with the constantly double-parked mid-day delivery trucks, and also the ones with the double and triple-parked out-of-town SUV shoppers. 37th is actually not a truck route, but is used as a truck route thoroughly and frequently.

34th never had that level of constant commercial traffic; it also has the median, the shade trees, the multiple schools and the park. So 34th can function as an extension of the park, solve some of the issues with schoolkids crossing the street (especially with the IS230 building layout), etc.

There are some bigger issues around the assertion that "you can't have groceries in the neighborhood without double-parking tractor-trailers in the middle of a busy street at midday" that really nobody at any level of city management or design wants to have to even think about. Obvious answer is to make each block in front of a grocery store a loading-only zone, but for some reason no, that's not a thing we can do.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lissagordon on August 29, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
I am firmly against an Open Street which is 1 mile or more long and runs through a residential neighborhood, rapidly being turned into a commercial strip. This is the longest Open Street in NYC and the only one in an only residential neighborhood. This street is empty during the week when people should be working. The Supporters of this initiative seem to be primarily in garden apartment coops or at the East end of 34th Ave and determined to drive people into the 70s and Travers Park. The whole project is a power play by a few, and ill conceived at best! Could the building on 89th Street have been saved if there weren't barriers for fire-fighters to move? I don't know but it's something to think about. The thought that this is going to increase the real estate value of Jackson Heights is nonsense, it is my opinion it will have exactly the opposite affect.

It would be wise to select what is read about this more carefully, the NYC blog is one sided, not journalism at all, and an obvious plant. Frankly I think the New York Times article was as well, shame on them, might cancel my subscription.

There should be compromise, greatly reduced hours. And there needs to be patrolling of activities. The overall noise level is out of control!! It's nice that families can use it at night and weekends when there is light. Soon there will be no light in the evenings and it will be cold.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 29, 2021, 02:50:41 PM
I am firmly against an Open Street which is 1 mile or more long and runs through a residential neighborhood, rapidly being turned into a commercial strip. This is the longest Open Street in NYC and the only one in an only residential neighborhood. This street is empty during the week when people should be working. The Supporters of this initiative seem to be primarily in garden apartment coops or at the East end of 34th Ave and determined to drive people into the 70s and Travers Park. The whole project is a power play by a few, and ill conceived at best! Could the building on 89th Street have been saved if there weren't barriers for fire-fighters to move? I don't know but it's something to think about. The thought that this is going to increase the real estate value of Jackson Heights is nonsense, it is my opinion it will have exactly the opposite affect.

It would be wise to select what is read about this more carefully, the NYC blog is one sided, not journalism at all, and an obvious plant. Frankly I think the New York Times article was as well, shame on them, might cancel my subscription.

There should be compromise, greatly reduced hours. And there needs to be patrolling of activities. The overall noise level is out of control!! It's nice that families can use it at night and weekends when there is light. Soon there will be no light in the evenings and it will be cold.

Interesting. Hmmm. Pointed accusations stemming from someone's opinions. A confusion of conjecture and reality.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hfm on August 29, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
I like how people are suddenly caring about noise when those of us that live on 37th have been dealing with the sound based torture of talentless buskers playing the same 5 songs over, and over, and over again (it's a military torture tactic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_psychological_operations)...), 10 different garbage truck outfits making noise all night, the beeping trucks at the post office all night, I can swear it just sits there sometimes not moving just beeping for an hour or so.. but no one seems to care about stuff like that until their NIMBYism kicks in when it's about to hit you personally..

I definitely can empathize with those people that live on 34th who are staring down a potential noise source, especially on a 100% residential street. Usually these open streets are lined with cafes etc..
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 29, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
I like how people are suddenly caring about noise when those of us that live on 37th have been dealing with the sound based torture of talentless buskers playing the same 5 songs over, and over, and over again (it's a military torture tactic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_psychological_operations)...), 10 different garbage truck outfits making noise all night, the beeping trucks at the post office all night, I can swear it just sits there sometimes not moving just beeping for an hour or so.. but no one seems to care about stuff like that until their NIMBYism kicks in when it's about to hit you personally..

I definitely can empathize with those people that live on 34th who are staring down a potential noise source, especially on a 100% residential street. Usually these open streets are lined with cafes etc..

Interesting. A projection of a problem on 37th Ave onto 34th Ave. Meanwhile, what are the 34th Ave inhabitants saying about noise?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Hagop on August 29, 2021, 11:45:31 PM
Meanwhile, what are the 34th Ave inhabitants saying about noise?
We live on 34th Avenue. I realize that our experience may not be universal; I'm sure where on 34th you live, what floor, etc. all make a difference. But for us...the street is a LOT more noisy after 8pm. I don't notice much noise coming from open street during the day at all (been working from home for the last year+), but you can tell the minute it turns to 8:00 without looking at a clock, because of the vehicle noise. So for us, Open Streets has resulted in a quieter home, not noisier.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on August 30, 2021, 11:14:12 AM
Meanwhile, what are the 34th Ave inhabitants saying about noise?
We live on 34th Avenue. I realize that our experience may not be universal; I'm sure where on 34th you live, what floor, etc. all make a difference. But for us...the street is a LOT more noisy after 8pm. I don't notice much noise coming from open street during the day at all (been working from home for the last year+), but you can tell the minute it turns to 8:00 without looking at a clock, because of the vehicle noise. So for us, Open Streets has resulted in a quieter home, not noisier.

Interesting. From someone who lives on 34th Ave. Who sounds like they are reporting their facts. And not agenda'ed. For some reason, often the agenda'ed folks come across as having anger management issues. There's no  balance. That's my observation.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: NYer1008 on September 01, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
I am firmly against an Open Street which is 1 mile or more long and runs through a residential neighborhood, rapidly being turned into a commercial strip. This is the longest Open Street in NYC and the only one in an only residential neighborhood. This street is empty during the week when people should be working.
...

There should be compromise, greatly reduced hours. And there needs to be patrolling of activities. The overall noise level is out of control!! It's nice that families can use it at night and weekends when there is light. Soon there will be no light in the evenings and it will be cold.

I've added the bold above. I'd like to know how noise is "out of control" on a street that's empty.

You never have to set foot on 34th Avenue to know that people walking -- even people walking with frolicking children, which is only some of the people some of the time anyway -- do not make as much noise as cars. This is true anywhere.

These are such ridiculous arguments. You want to say cars & parking should have priority, fine. I would disagree, but at least it's not a disingenuous statement. The people who keep saying "nobody uses the street but it's so noisy" know darn well that neither is remotely true.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on September 02, 2021, 09:28:49 PM
Nobody uses it, it's too crowded  :)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 03, 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Jackson Heights desperately needs open space—and I’m happy to see people make the best of 34th ave—but wouldn’t 37th ave be the smarter street to close down (to non commercial traffic)? The sidewalks there are horribly overcrowded, and double parking is a mess that brings traffic to a halt anyway. Why not open it up, give the restaurants more outdoor breathing room, allow for more room to roam, and more space to play and hang out? [/b]

   I believe that when this JH Open Street situation is properly analyzed by all the depts in the city that need to consider the implications, another street BESIDES 34th Ave. Time will tell but there is so little conversation about less abled people - elderly and wheel chair bound, those whose jobs mandate a vehicle and people who prefer a more defined walkway (not including bikes in same area). Have said before that 37th is a MUCH better choice and hope that the conclusion of the professionals is the same. We have moved up the ladder with more park space in JH and if private gardens (we have a fair amount) and rooftop spaces are included, we would
be seen as providing more recreational space. But we have some fabulous gardens which will be profiled in JHBG's upcoming Garden Tour. Still really, really need an all weather, all abilities, all ages community center though.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on September 04, 2021, 08:23:53 PM
Some people have pointed out that residents of 34th Ave are enjoying the Open Streets and have seen their property values increase because of this program. Perhaps these residents would be willing to share their bonus value by funding this initiative via increased real estate assessments so that the city could hire people to properly enforce the participation rules, ensure the safety of all, and possibly direct traffic on 35th Avenue?
Once again, the opinions of 34th Ave residents are not the only opinions that matter. 35th Ave was flooded on Thursday yet cars had to re-route to the already over-crowded 37th Ave and Northern Blvd.
Many thanks to the volunteers for their efforts, but this needs to be funded and staffed if it's too be fair to all.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 05, 2021, 09:48:08 AM
 As far as I can see, property values are down on 34th Ave, not up, and am not sure where anyone is hearing otherwise. All JH residents opinions count here but those who are profoundly impacted deserve a little more weight with their opinions in my view. BTW this is commonly done with new
school buildings etc.
  You may want to live near a public facility, such as a school or park, but living right next to it may not be your thing and to have it open suddenly is not considering all parties.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 05, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
As far as I can see, property values are down on 34th Ave, not up, and am not sure where anyone is hearing otherwise. All JH residents opinions count here but those who are profoundly impacted deserve a little more weight with their opinions in my view. BTW this is commonly done with new
school buildings etc.
  You may want to live near a public facility, such as a school or park, but living right next to it may not be your thing and to have it open suddenly is not considering all parties.

All urban property prices are down. Across NYC. There is a move towards less density/the suburbs/more space. Due to COVID.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ChickenringNYC on September 05, 2021, 03:34:42 PM
It used to be one of my favorite activities to bike the 34th path and bike it fast! Absolutely no chance of that happening anymore with block parties, impromptu soccer games, delivery scooters, motor bikes, motor scooters, motor unicycle wheel things, and whatever else clamoring for space and not looking over their shoulder. Oh well! There's always the freezing winter.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on September 05, 2021, 04:24:24 PM
funny, almost every cyclist i know finds cars to be more of a problem than other kinds of cycles and/or pedestrians. you do know that there were delivery scooters on 34th when it was open to cars, right?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hfm on September 06, 2021, 04:31:14 PM
funny, almost every cyclist i know finds cars to be more of a problem than other kinds of cycles and/or pedestrians. you do know that there were delivery scooters on 34th when it was open to cars, right?

It still is open to cars, the sign says "local traffic only" not "no traffic". I've seen cars and pedestrians sharing the same road now, with what's probably less oversight and knowledge about how it's supposed to work.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on September 06, 2021, 08:01:30 PM
Chickenring doesn't seem to know that.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: auxbarricades on September 07, 2021, 02:34:53 PM
It used to be one of my favorite activities to bike the 34th path and bike it fast! Absolutely no chance of that happening anymore with block parties, impromptu soccer games, delivery scooters, motor bikes, motor scooters, motor unicycle wheel things, and whatever else clamoring for space and not looking over their shoulder. Oh well! There's always the freezing winter.

Chickenring, I'm confused here. In prior posts you've only claimed to live here since February 2021. When exactly were you biking 34th Ave super fast? Open Streets seems to be older than you are.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: auxbarricades on September 07, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
As far as I can see, property values are down on 34th Ave, not up, and am not sure where anyone is hearing otherwise. All JH residents opinions count here but those who are profoundly impacted deserve a little more weight with their opinions in my view. BTW this is commonly done with new
school buildings etc.
  You may want to live near a public facility, such as a school or park, but living right next to it may not be your thing and to have it open suddenly is not considering all parties.

Homeowners' opinions and say on this subject do not carry more weight than renters. Sorry.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hfm on September 07, 2021, 04:48:34 PM
As far as I can see, property values are down on 34th Ave, not up, and am not sure where anyone is hearing otherwise. All JH residents opinions count here but those who are profoundly impacted deserve a little more weight with their opinions in my view. BTW this is commonly done with new
school buildings etc.
  You may want to live near a public facility, such as a school or park, but living right next to it may not be your thing and to have it open suddenly is not considering all parties.

Homeowners' opinions and say on this subject do not carry more weight than renters. Sorry.

I dunno they are the ones paying property taxes and have more "skin in the game".
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 07, 2021, 05:04:28 PM
Yet again, people (with agendas) speaking for others.

It is always great to hear what the real people who live on 34th Ave say.

We have heard some already on this thread.

And, interestingly, it is often nothing like what the folks (with agendas) proclaim. Mostly, reading the responses, the folks who live on 34th Ave come across far more balanced than the agenda'ed posters.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on September 08, 2021, 05:30:24 AM
Quote
35th Ave was flooded on Thursday yet cars had to re-route to the already over-crowded 37th Ave and Northern Blvd.

We had a very major storm that resulted in a Federal disaster designation in the area.  In the wake of the storm, we had increased traffic on two roads on the following day.  I have a hard time seeing that as a significant problem with the 34th Ave Open Street.

 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on September 08, 2021, 06:41:35 AM
Quote
This street is empty during the week when people should be working.

I think this falls under the hope that "if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it." Unfortunately, a visit to 34 OS at any time beyond times when it's pouring rain or 1 pm and 98 degrees out will demonstrate this to be a false assertion. 8 am - 11 am, the street is being used by a lot of people. Even during the summer heat waves. 4-8 pm, the street is being used. Usage is lighter mid-day, no doubt. But empty? It wasn't even empty during the winter.

Quote
35th Ave was flooded on Thursday
Where was 35th Avenue flooded?

Quote
Some people have pointed out that residents of 34th Ave are enjoying the Open Streets and have seen their property values increase because of this program.

And some have argued that property values are down *because* of 34th Avenue OS. Until someone produces a report that analyzes closing prices on apartments on 34th Avenue in comparison to real estate values of properties not directly on an OS - which btw is publicly available information, you just need someone with the time awareness of bias to do it - any arguments about property value certainly seem to be cherry picking data that supports the arguers bias.

Quote
Many thanks to the volunteers for their efforts, but this needs to be funded and staffed if it's too be fair to all.

Which is why people should be advocating for DoT to produce its plan for the design of the OS (which was supposed to come in June, but was pushed back in to fall, seemingly thanks in part to the Compromisers working folks up about OS by misrepresenting a proposal by an advocacy group to reduce street parking by 25% across the city as an actual plan by the city to remove parking on 34th Avenue), participating in the visioning sessions and other public forums about 34 OS, and pushing the city to fund the program. Best in my opinion would be a design that doesn't rely on barricades that must be moved in and out of place twice a day or for drivers to have to move them. Relying on the volunteers is unsustainable in the long run, and its certainly time for the city agency in charge of Open Streets to come up with a solution.

Quote
All JH residents opinions count here but those who are profoundly impacted deserve a little more weight with their opinions in my view.

There was a primary election recently for City Council. Most of the candidates came out in favor of 34 Ave OS, but Andy Chen was actively courting the anti-OS/Compromise crowd. Most of the blocks on 34th Avenue went for Shekar Krishnan, who supports turning 34 Ave in to a linear park. Since the city council member for the district has a huge impact on OS, that seems like the time 34th Avenue residents if they dislike OS as much as some people like to insist they do, could have made that clear. There's a general election coming up soon. Residents of 34th Avenue who dislike OS can vote for the libertarian.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on September 08, 2021, 12:08:28 PM
Too much to quote and edit, Captain Flannel, but 35th Avenue was flooded between 69th and 65th Streets by the BQE. In the morning it was impassable, and in the afternoon only the bravest (or most foolish) of drivers attempted to get through. Nice job formatting, BTW.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on September 08, 2021, 12:20:41 PM
Quote
This street is empty during the week when people should be working.

I think this falls under the hope that "if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it." Unfortunately, a visit to 34 OS at any time beyond times when it's pouring rain or 1 pm and 98 degrees out will demonstrate this to be a false assertion. 8 am - 11 am, the street is being used by a lot of people. Even during the summer heat waves. 4-8 pm, the street is being used. Usage is lighter mid-day, no doubt. But empty? It wasn't even empty during the winter.
I walk between 78th and 71st most days and rarely see more than ten to twelve people walking on 34th Ave during that walk. But rather than argue, since most people see what they want to see, the traffic department should be able to provide a usage survey of perhaps a one week period so that real data can be discussed. While the street may be heavily used in the morning, I typically see many more delivery people using the street than any other type of user. YMMV.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 08, 2021, 12:50:08 PM

I walk between 78th and 71st most days and rarely see more than ten to twelve people walking on 34th Ave during that walk. But rather than argue, since most people see what they want to see, the traffic department should be able to provide a usage survey of perhaps a one week period so that real data can be discussed. While the street may be heavily used in the morning, I typically see many more delivery people using the street than any other type of user. YMMV.
[/quote]
Thanks JHResident!

  Those of us who have more contact with 34th Ave at different times of days and different days of the week, know that usage is often low. PLEASE, please DOT, collect data through technology. It will give you the accurate reading of when it's being used and most importantly in my opinion, when it
is not. The residents of 34th ave and the heavily impacted surrounding area deserve better treatment when it comes to the accuracy of how much 34th Ave is used now. And please collect data for a few months that have varied weather and see what the aggregate use is before going forward.
Start slow and build where need is warranted and avoid the blanket treatment with closures that we are now subjected to. PLEASE!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on September 08, 2021, 02:46:42 PM
^I'm out on 34th Avenue multiple times a day - morning, afternoon, evenings. I do a little data collection most times I'm out there.  I sit down on a particularly shady block, and count the number of people that cross the crosswalk over the course of a minute. The smallest number of people I've counted has been 5. The largest was 24. Even on the days when it's been raining heavily out (looking at you Memorial Day weekend), there were people on the avenue.

It's fine to disagree about what constitutes high or low usage, but it's disingenuous to say no one is on it most of the time. Foot traffic, just like car traffic ebbs and flows. There's very little traffic on 35th Avenue right now, but it would be incorrect to say there is no car traffic on it.

Also, DoT does seem to be responsive to usage. Sunnyside's Open Street, which didn't seem to work, is being turned in to a bike blvd. 34 Avenue OS got planters and a few employees from the city. All signs point to DoT thinking it gets enough foot traffic to warrant further investment, at least for now. It will be interesting to see what they come up with they unveil their plan come fall.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 09, 2021, 07:42:35 AM
 Captain Flannel, with all due respect, in this age of technology it makes much more sense to use the available tools to accurately record the use of 34th Ave. Anecdotal accounts are passionate as noted here on this forum but those of us who have more to do with the avenue 24/7 know what we see also. Let's let the truth be determined in a bipartisan way with cameras recording and having the data analyzed and charted showing once and for all, the actual use of 34th Ave now.
   Those most affected need to have others understand the full story on this very divisive issue here in Jackson Heights!Also those planters blocking access to the fire hydrants on a street where a massive fire happened earlier this year are unbelievable idiotic to residents on the avenue whose lives would be at stake should there be a need to use the hydrants quickly. WHY?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: opalis141 on September 09, 2021, 07:53:41 AM
Itsit there are lot of legal and privacy considerations to take into account for the methodology you are suggesting that would actually make a count using recorded video tricky. The method that CaptainFlannel just outlined is actually what is used for a lot of survey data (think MTA train usage collection). Folks take a a manual count over a given period of time -- average and multiply it out.

For what it is worth, I live on 34th ave, and am a car owner in the neighborhood. I am supportive of the open streets program and, anecdotally, see the open streets being used pretty continuously by where I live. I enjoy that there is now space for residents to use, and also don't find it to be a hindrance with my car -- as long as (careful and slow!) parking is allowed to remain, I am happy :) I haven't encountered any noise issues -- the biggest issue I have encountered are speeding electric bikes/scooters.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 09, 2021, 08:27:02 AM
 Opalis, do you think that there aren't already many cameras recording the street for security issues among other things? We know this to be true and although we are not like London or some cities in China with full recordings going on all times of day, there is something objective gained here by data analysis. What populations are best served by the Open Streets and at what times?

 And which populations are adversely affected and at what times? And to my other point, what fire and safety issues are in need of an official review with this closure? To my knowledge, none of this has been done and there are frustrated residents here on 34th ave among those in favor of a full and comprehensive study. Both sides deserve a voice, don't you think? And what is the comprehensive impact on the neighborhood which in my opinion is three different areas of JH - very dense 82nd- Junction, medium density 76th to 82nd and lower density 75th to 69th street.
My observations are from the lower density area and trust me, they are real and I could verify them easily. It's a mystery why the one size fits all policy is continually being applied to this Open Street situation which is the longest one in the city and open the most hours! It's out of scale with the community needs imho. Let the data begin!
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 09, 2021, 09:22:01 AM
Opalis, do you think that there aren't already many cameras recording the street for security issues among other things? We know this to be true and although we are not like London or some cities in China with full recordings going on all times of day, there is something objective gained here by data analysis. What populations are best served by the Open Streets and at what times?

 And which populations are adversely affected and at what times? And to my other point, what fire and safety issues are in need of an official review with this closure? To my knowledge, none of this has been done and there are frustrated residents here on 34th ave among those in favor of a full and comprehensive study. Both sides deserve a voice, don't you think? And what is the comprehensive impact on the neighborhood which in my opinion is three different areas of JH - very dense 82nd- Junction, medium density 76th to 82nd and lower density 75th to 69th street.
My observations are from the lower density area and trust me, they are real and I could verify them easily. It's a mystery why the one size fits all policy is continually being applied to this Open Street situation which is the longest one in the city and open the most hours! It's out of scale with the community needs imho. Let the data begin!

Itsit, what is your real agenda? Is it car-related? Please be honest.

It appears to me, that's it's pro-car vs no-car (or not placing car needs first) ...and that is the basis of all these divisions concerning 34th Ave. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 09, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
 My agenda, if I have to have one, is this. Look at Diversity Plaza? Is it not one of the worst public spaces made with public monies in recent memory? As someone who travels the city and especially the boroughs, it seems like a travesty that Diversity Plaza looks and functions as it does. The planning was poor, and it was commandeered by a smallish group that tailored it to their agenda.
I see something similar here. A vocal group who loves Open Streets is commandeering the planning. That is why I am in favor of data. Cars are not my issue and if there was one major thing that seems forgotten, it's the less abled and senior communities in JH who need more access to 34th Ave as well as the multi family residences that are in the lower numbers who absolutely use their cars for grandma and the infants to travel. Also it has been mentioned that 34th Ave has many schools, not really businesses. Many of the teachers who need to be at school before 8:00 are driving. Where are they parking? What provisions have the schools made for their employees who drive to be certain to arrive on time especially if they themselves are parents? Yes, it is lovely to walk or bike anywhere without impediments. This is often why public rides and walks are popular. But we need to consider the long, long hours of closure here and factor in other needs in the community as listed above. When we see the sidewalks empty and just a few people using the avenue, it seems like poor planning and not great use of our neighborhood resources.
   These people - the less abled, the seniors, the low 70's residents, the teachers working with our children - are if you will, my agenda.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 09, 2021, 02:07:42 PM
My agenda, if I have to have one, is this. Look at Diversity Plaza? Is it not one of the worst public spaces made with public monies in recent memory? As someone who travels the city and especially the boroughs, it seems like a travesty that Diversity Plaza looks and functions as it does. The planning was poor, and it was commandeered by a smallish group that tailored it to their agenda.
I see something similar here. A vocal group who loves Open Streets is commandeering the planning. That is why I am in favor of data. Cars are not my issue and if there was one major thing that seems forgotten, it's the less abled and senior communities in JH who need more access to 34th Ave as well as the multi family residences that are in the lower numbers who absolutely use their cars for grandma and the infants to travel. Also it has been mentioned that 34th Ave has many schools, not really businesses. Many of the teachers who need to be at school before 8:00 are driving. Where are they parking? What provisions have the schools made for their employees who drive to be certain to arrive on time especially if they themselves are parents? Yes, it is lovely to walk or bike anywhere without impediments. This is often why public rides and walks are popular. But we need to consider the long, long hours of closure here and factor in other needs in the community as listed above. When we see the sidewalks empty and just a few people using the avenue, it seems like poor planning and not great use of our neighborhood resources.
   These people - the less abled, the seniors, the low 70's residents, the teachers working with our children - are if you will, my agenda.

So, basically, hiding behind all that virtuous rhetoric...is a pro car agenda.
As opposed to the pro-pedestrian agenda. Got it.

As for Diversity Plaza, I was here before it was built. Hard to imagine but that area was even WORSE before the plaza was constructed.

Instead of people clogged, it was car clogged.

Again...the issue really boils down to pedestrians overs cars. Or cars over pedestrians.

And folks are mostly on one side or another. No matter how much the amount of "worthy" reasoning.




Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Ohno on September 09, 2021, 02:32:59 PM
NOTE: There are many ways to compromise. It is not necessarily yes or no but perhaps something else. Please keep that in mind when thinking and commenting. Compromise is not my way or the highway.

I have noticed that mostly what goes on in forums online... is that when folks hear facts that don't suit them, they shoot the messenger. But since Ancient Greek times,  shooting the messenger NEVER changes the message.

Why is this person allowed to attack anyone who makes comments? This bombardment is constant.  Please ban her.  Make this stop, please.  You ban people who confront her but she remains. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 09, 2021, 02:49:13 PM
 Question- so cars = school busses, access a ride, construction vehicles, MTA cross town busses, ambulances, fire crews, Amazon, Fedex and USPS deliveries, misfit fruit deliveries, e-bikes,  medical transport, Ubers, etc. all of which I would say are not personal cars. Do I have this right? So yes, pro-these vehicles listed above with responsible use in our community. Or should all motorized vehicles be left out of 11372 for now?
 In the half hour between 7:30 and 8:00 watch the many school busses trying to get out of the neighborhood before the closure. It's kind of crazy scary to see and seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on September 09, 2021, 08:02:37 PM
All of those users (except the ??cross town buses??) can and do currently utilize 34th Ave for access and specific needs at any time of the day. There is still parking all day long on 34th Ave except for a block or two for play spaces.
Your arguments sound like they are based on the premise that the blocks on 34th Ave are entirely off limit to vehicles, which is clearly not the case.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: itsit on September 09, 2021, 09:54:01 PM
 Is 34th Ave technically open to traffic? Yes but for 12hrs a day, basically the working hours of the day, there are issues with using the street if you have limited mobility, need your vehicle for work, have to use a transit service for medical pickup and assorted other things. No one is filming this though. But the residents experience it first hand. There are many stories that are not the popular narrative of how the open street is impacting JH that are of concern here in quality of life. When will they be told?
 That sign in the march "Stop Yelling at My Grandma" comes to mind as a young man explained his grandmother was being screamed at when she needed to be picked up in front of her building on 34th Ave. But hey, it's open to traffic, right? And the hospital staffer coming home from an overnight shift and is so tired of moving the heavy barriers to her garage on 34th and also being yelled at. Is that what we like about Open Streets? Let hear all sides of the story please and get that data collection and analysis publicized. What's to fear?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ShinjukuBaby on September 12, 2021, 07:13:50 AM
What we've got now IS a compromise.  Any rational evaluation of the best and highest land use value would say that using this public land to provide free on-street parking makes zero sense.  If we were to do it properly, the entire stretch would be a tree lined park with bike and walking trails, plus narrow lanes necessary for resident and emergency access.  Instead we've currently got a compromise, but that doesn't seem to be enough for a small minority of privileged car owners.



Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 12, 2021, 08:54:08 AM
Is 34th Ave technically open to traffic? Yes but for 12hrs a day, basically the working hours of the day, there are issues with using the street if you have limited mobility, need your vehicle for work, have to use a transit service for medical pickup and assorted other things. No one is filming this though. But the residents experience it first hand. There are many stories that are not the popular narrative of how the open street is impacting JH that are of concern here in quality of life. When will they be told?
 That sign in the march "Stop Yelling at My Grandma" comes to mind as a young man explained his grandmother was being screamed at when she needed to be picked up in front of her building on 34th Ave. But hey, it's open to traffic, right? And the hospital staffer coming home from an overnight shift and is so tired of moving the heavy barriers to her garage on 34th and also being yelled at. Is that what we like about Open Streets? Let hear all sides of the story please and get that data collection and analysis publicized. What's to fear?

People in New York scream at one another whether on Open Streets or at Grandma's crossing regular roads...welcome to New York. The  city of impatient people. Once, in Jackson Heights, on a crossing, I was walking behind a grandma who was knocked over by an impatient driver who then sped off. This proves nothing. Except that some folks in this city are very impatient.

Interesting use of an individual anecdotal story meant to tug on heart strings by invoking Grandmas.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: Bill on September 13, 2021, 07:47:27 PM
Ha, ha. Great joke. I had a neighbor who was a very active 80-something woman who was run down by a car while crossing with the light and was never able to walk again. Any penalty for the driver? None. No it's not "welcome to NY", unless you've got a heart with no strings to tug.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 13, 2021, 08:01:55 PM
Ha, ha. Great joke. I had a neighbor who was a very active 80-something woman who was run down by a car while crossing with the light and was never able to walk again. Any penalty for the driver? None. No it's not "welcome to NY", unless you've got a heart with no strings to tug.


Besides Grandmas, I was also once run into at a crossing in Jackson Heights. The walk light said go. Thankfully, I wasn't knocked to the ground. The truth is, being run into by cars at crossings is part of living with the impatient drivers of cars in New York. 

Simply a hard but honest fact. For any pedestrian in New York. Whether they have a heart or not.
Surely, you have seen the instances of impatient car drivers closely cutting in front of pedestrians as they cross?
I am sorry to have to say...welcome to New York. Because that's part of living in New York. I certainly did not say it was a good part.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 13, 2021, 08:25:51 PM
Ha, ha. Great joke. I had a neighbor who was a very active 80-something woman who was run down by a car while crossing with the light and was never able to walk again. Any penalty for the driver? None. No it's not "welcome to NY", unless you've got a heart with no strings to tug.

Also. Who do you think called the ambulance for the grandma who was knocked over in front of me? And waited until it came? Hint:  It certainly wasn't the impatient and COWARDLY car driver who had sped off. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHResident on September 14, 2021, 08:01:56 AM
What we've got now IS a compromise.  Any rational evaluation of the best and highest land use value would say that using this public land to provide free on-street parking makes zero sense.  If we were to do it properly, the entire stretch would be a tree lined park with bike and walking trails, plus narrow lanes necessary for resident and emergency access.  Instead we've currently got a compromise, but that doesn't seem to be enough for a small minority of privileged car owners.
"Free parking" isn't free.  Street construction and repairs are funded by gasoline taxes and registration fees and tolls and sales taxes on car sales.

The Open Street program, on the other hand, has been free, despite restricting the cars that pay for the street.  Enjoy.
As for car owners being privileged, I recommend you watch "Driving While Black" on PBS, if you get a chance.  While not necessary in JH, other than now when Subways are infested, automobiles level the mobility playing field between the classes.  A jalopy can go almost anywhere a Rolls can.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: abcdefghijk on September 14, 2021, 09:41:58 AM
What we've got now IS a compromise.  Any rational evaluation of the best and highest land use value would say that using this public land to provide free on-street parking makes zero sense.  If we were to do it properly, the entire stretch would be a tree lined park with bike and walking trails, plus narrow lanes necessary for resident and emergency access.  Instead we've currently got a compromise, but that doesn't seem to be enough for a small minority of privileged car owners.
"Free parking" isn't free.  Street construction and repairs are funded by gasoline taxes and registration fees and tolls and sales taxes on car sales.

The Open Street program, on the other hand, has been free, despite restricting the cars that pay for the street.  Enjoy.
As for car owners being privileged, I recommend you watch "Driving While Black" on PBS, if you get a chance.  While not necessary in JH, other than now when Subways are infested, automobiles level the mobility playing field between the classes.  A jalopy can go almost anywhere a Rolls can.

So when MLK had a dream, he was talking about driving a car down 34th Ave? And not taking a stroll down 34th Ave equally with everyone else? Interesting stretch.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ChickenringNYC on September 14, 2021, 12:56:06 PM
Yesterday, I crossed 34th avenue on 79th street with my bike, in "pedestrian mode", giving a wide berth to an elderly couple as they strolled on 34th. There was no other traffic and 34th was not busy. The lady couldn't help but inform me in a soft-tone, "We have a green light sir."

There's nothing I love more than completely ignoring comments like. No acknowledgement whatsoever. Amazing that these people have been straight up GIVEN the entire street for 30 blocks and not even a 1.5 years later, it's like it's been theirs forever. Now THAT's entitlement.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: SimoneB on September 14, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
Yesterday, I crossed 34th avenue on 79th street with my bike, in "pedestrian mode", giving a wide berth to an elderly couple as they strolled on 34th. There was no other traffic and 34th was not busy. The lady couldn't help but inform me in a soft-tone, "We have a green light sir."

There's nothing I love more than completely ignoring comments like. No acknowledgement whatsoever. Amazing that these people have been straight up GIVEN the entire street for 30 blocks and not even a 1.5 years later, it's like it's been theirs forever. Now THAT's entitlement.

Sorry, I don't understand. Were you driving your bike through a red light? Or was it green and the elderly couple were incorrect? Will you clarify please.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: dssjh on September 14, 2021, 06:19:47 PM
you do realize that you can't go through a red light under any circumstances, right?
Yesterday, I crossed 34th avenue on 79th street with my bike, in "pedestrian mode", giving a wide berth to an elderly couple as they strolled on 34th. There was no other traffic and 34th was not busy. The lady couldn't help but inform me in a soft-tone, "We have a green light sir."

There's nothing I love more than completely ignoring comments like. No acknowledgement whatsoever. Amazing that these people have been straight up GIVEN the entire street for 30 blocks and not even a 1.5 years later, it's like it's been theirs forever. Now THAT's entitlement.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: ChickenringNYC on September 14, 2021, 09:47:55 PM
No biker in their right mind stops and waits at a red light when there are no cars around and they are crossing an open street. I slowed, checked both ways, and rolled widely around the couple. Not anything like the electric delivery bikes that routinely speed through lanes and across intersections on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: lalochezia on September 15, 2021, 10:09:25 AM
By "rolled" do you mean ridden or walked?

Look - I'm pro bike. I think there should be protected bike lanes everywhere where there is a road. But intersections are where cyclists by their recklessness do damage to the reputation of other cyclists.

If the light is red, Walk the bike across like the pedestrians that are legally allowed to use the crossing. If you're riding it, you're riding through a red light and breaking the law. If you ride, pedestrians have no way to know what speed or route you're intending to hit with your vehicle - especially true these days w/electric bikes. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: StevenGrey on September 15, 2021, 02:51:58 PM
So I needed to bring my car to the neighborhood this afternoon from where I have it garaged in Woodside. Northern Boulevard was jammed up in both directions because southbound 80th and 82nd Streets were backed up and at a complete standstill. Why? -- It was 2:15pm and schools were letting out. If this is a regular occurrence on school days, it's just another reason the 34th Avenue open street needs to be reevaluated with a comprehensive traffic study that takes into account traffic patterns and congestion from 69th Street to Junction Boulevard and Roosevelt Avenue to Northern Boulevard.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on September 15, 2021, 04:35:02 PM
It's ironic that the same people who seem to think that cyclists and pedestrians somehow cannot navigate each other safely on a wide open street are clamoring for the return of cars and trucks to 34th Ave.
And yes, the whole neighborhood is full of traffic when school lets out, as well as during evening rush hour when thousands of cars use our neighborhood as a through route to points east. The return of vehicle traffic to 34th Ave will not change that, it will just be yet another congested street.
I think the city should suspend the program for a week or two and let people see that there will still be heavy traffic and honking throughout the neighborhood without the open street. Of course people will not realize that, because they only see what they want to see.
We live in a city plagued with reckless drivers who cause thousands of serious injuries and couple of hundred fatalities each year in this city, yet a bicycle passing a pedestrian with a few feet to spare is supposedly the danger because "it's against the law".
Common sense is truly dead.


 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: StevenGrey on September 15, 2021, 08:40:58 PM
Let's be realistic. Traffic fatalities have risen dramatically since the onset of the pandemic because of the nonsense of open streets, bike boulevards, and outdoor dining sheds. Not because the drivers have suddenly gotten any worse behind the wheel, but because all of these programs create chaos on our roads and cut down on the visibility of pedestrians and cyclists. Frustrate or confuse drivers with narrowed traffic lanes, new traffic patterns, or obstacles that simple shouldn't be there (such as the dining sheds) and it should come as no surprise that collisions and fatalities are on the rise. To blame this solely on the drivers is an oversimplification of the problem.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cab9d9b65a707a9b36f4b6c/1626821479535-C8Z0SRUBPFFPTNJX9OJV/Chart+showing+the+rolling+12+month+fatality+count+under+Mayor+de+Blasio+with+a+decrease+from+Jan.+2015+until+mid-2018+and+an+increase+since+then?format=2500w
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on September 15, 2021, 10:06:37 PM
Your claim that traffic fatalities are rising because of open streets, bike boulevards, and dining sheds is ludicrous.
Fatalities are up because drivers are confused by traffic patterns or fixed structures on the shoulder of the road? On what planet does that even sound reasonable? Do traffic fatalities go up wherever there is road construction?

Perhaps you haven't noticed the plague of reckless driving, the rampant failure to yield to pedestrians, the lack of any significant police enforcement, or the proliferation of bogus and often expired temporary plates i.e. unregistered and uninsured vehicles that flout laws with near impunity.
Here's some stats regarding the lack of enforcement. You can find the raw data here https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/traffic-data/traffic-data-archive-2021.page

In June, 2021 (the last month for which there are full-month stats), cops citywide wrote just 39,777 total moving violation tickets, which is down 51 percent from the 82,229 moving violations cops wrote in June 2019. Specifically, in June, 2021, cops wrote:

    2,308 failure-to-yield tickets (down 55 percent from 5,208 in June 2019)
    7,777 speeding tickets (down 35 percent from 11,993 in June 2019)
    2,623 tickets for running a red light (down 56 percent from 5,933 in June 2019)
    1,882 tickets for improper turn (down 72 percent from 6,857 in June 2019)

Through Sept. 1, 172 people have been killed on the roadways — including 80 pedestrians and 17 cyclists or micro-mobility users.
Yes, based on the numbers it surely must be because of the opens streets, bike boulevards, and curbside dining shacks /S. 
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: StevenGrey on September 16, 2021, 01:16:10 PM
There's clearly no point in trying to engage with you further on this matter since we are both firmly entrenched in our positions.

As you previous stated, people only see what they want to see and that is certain true for you and other members of the anti-car crowd. Maybe if you owned a car and drove these city streets as I do, you'd be more aware of all the pedestrians and cyclists who ignore their own safety, common sense, and the rules of the road, placing themselves and others in danger.

Just curious if the NYPD keeps data on tickets given to cyclists and pedestrians? Maybe more enforcement there would help, no?
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: JHHD on September 16, 2021, 04:00:33 PM
I'm not anti-car. I own a car, use it regularly, park it on the street, and have driven in this city my entire life. I also happen to respect the safety and needs of other road user, and see many many drivers who simply do not.
The fact that you don't seem to distinguish the difference in damage potential between someone is a 3-4k lb steel box vs someone on a 30lb bicycle is very telling.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: StevenGrey on September 16, 2021, 05:11:46 PM
All the more reason pedestrians and cyclists should obey traffic signals and the rules of the road. All of your statements here make it seem as if car drivers are always the guilty party when that is simply not the case.

And I don't care for your tone or demeanor on here, so this is the end of my following of this thread. It's very telling that you know your arguments are thin.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on September 17, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Quote
Traffic fatalities have risen dramatically since the onset of the pandemic because of the nonsense of open streets, bike boulevards, and outdoor dining sheds

How does the chart posted from Transportation Alternatives support the claim of causality? (It doesn't)
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: hfm on September 18, 2021, 12:08:37 AM
There's clearly no point in trying to engage with you further on this matter since we are both firmly entrenched in our positions.

As you previous stated, people only see what they want to see and that is certain true for you and other members of the anti-car crowd. Maybe if you owned a car and drove these city streets as I do, you'd be more aware of all the pedestrians and cyclists who ignore their own safety, common sense, and the rules of the road, placing themselves and others in danger.

Just curious if the NYPD keeps data on tickets given to cyclists and pedestrians? Maybe more enforcement there would help, no?

This is quite true. I own a car but don't use it very often. The amount of times a pedestrian just wandered into the intersection against the light as I'm coming to it consistently takes me aback. There's been a couple that have stared me down as they are doing it like they aren't the one doing something wrong. There's enough blame here to go all around for making mistakes whether intentional or not. I'm hyper vigilant when I'm driving, but there's not much I can do about people who don't also follow the rules or think they can just bend them if it seems safe to.
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: earbears on September 21, 2021, 10:59:10 AM
If you are having issues with the Open Street and want a COMPROMISE, please check out this site. If you agree with what is said, please sign the petition



https://www.34compromise.org/about
Title: Re: Petition started for "compromise" on 34th Ave Open Streets
Post by: CaptainFlannel on September 21, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Similarly, if you like 34th Avenue Open Street, and would like to see improvements made for pedestrian and cyclist safety, accessibility, space and programs for public schools, etc., be sure to check out this petition: https://www.34avelinearpark.com/ (https://www.34avelinearpark.com/)