Author Topic: Craft Cocktails  (Read 3126 times)

Offline MrPlaza

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 10:55:09 PM »
All this is sounding like we need to start a cocktail club. I'll host the first meeting this summer. Haha.

Offline Cassat

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 12:12:10 PM »
MrPlaza, I can't tell if you are entirely joking but I'd actually be down for that! :))

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 03:45:19 PM »
It is surprising (not saying good or bad, just surprising) that we still don't have a single craft cocktail bar (or a single ___, or a single ___) given what's going on with residential real estate. Someone needs to study the very particular dynamics of neighborhood change and stability here.

Have you seen what happened to Stew and Dudley? The community board, landlords, and other relevant bodies in the neighborhood seem to be pretty hostile to small new restaurants/bars established by 'upscale' people. That's good, on one slightly perverse level, because it prevents the whole neighborhood from domino'ing over. But it's bad, on another level.

Offline dssjh

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 04:18:38 PM »
are you saying, to paraphrase Kanye West, CB3 doesn't care about white people?

Offline Alexnyc

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 05:20:07 PM »
are you saying, to paraphrase Kanye West, CB3 doesn't care about white people?
no not white people. 'upscale' people

Offline AmazingJason

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 10:34:25 PM »
It is surprising (not saying good or bad, just surprising) that we still don't have a single craft cocktail bar (or a single ___, or a single ___) given what's going on with residential real estate. Someone needs to study the very particular dynamics of neighborhood change and stability here.

Have you seen what happened to Stew and Dudley? The community board, landlords, and other relevant bodies in the neighborhood seem to be pretty hostile to small new restaurants/bars established by 'upscale' people. That's good, on one slightly perverse level, because it prevents the whole neighborhood from domino'ing over. But it's bad, on another level.

My opinion is that it's not a bad thing at all...it's 100% positive. At the same time, I'm also excited for Swim Two Birds to open. It's just that most people don't understand basic economics, and that what makes this neighborhood great in the first place would disappear if those relevant bodies didn't fight to keep it the way it is now.

Offline Palermo

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 07:22:16 AM »
Have you seen what happened to Stew and Dudley? The community board, landlords, and other relevant bodies in the neighborhood seem to be pretty hostile to small new restaurants/bars established by 'upscale' people. That's good, on one slightly perverse level, because it prevents the whole neighborhood from domino'ing over. But it's bad, on another level.
My opinion is that it's not a bad thing at all...it's 100% positive. At the same time, I'm also excited for Swim Two Birds to open. It's just that most people don't understand basic economics, and that what makes this neighborhood great in the first place would disappear if those relevant bodies didn't fight to keep it the way it is now.

Am I reading into this wrong? Are you saying it would be a 100% positive thing that CB's, landlords et al to be openly hostile to businesses operated by upscale/white people?  It seems like that is what you are saying, but the excitement for Swim 2 Birds seems to counter that.  How does economics fit into all of this?

Offline theplanesland

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 08:25:15 AM »
Have you seen what happened to Stew and Dudley? The community board, landlords, and other relevant bodies in the neighborhood seem to be pretty hostile to small new restaurants/bars established by 'upscale' people. That's good, on one slightly perverse level, because it prevents the whole neighborhood from domino'ing over. But it's bad, on another level.
My opinion is that it's not a bad thing at all...it's 100% positive. At the same time, I'm also excited for Swim Two Birds to open. It's just that most people don't understand basic economics, and that what makes this neighborhood great in the first place would disappear if those relevant bodies didn't fight to keep it the way it is now.

Am I reading into this wrong? Are you saying it would be a 100% positive thing that CB's, landlords et al to be openly hostile to businesses operated by upscale/white people?  It seems like that is what you are saying, but the excitement for Swim 2 Birds seems to counter that.  How does economics fit into all of this?

Y'all are missing the other half of my comment, though, too - about a lot of landlords being prejduiced against -small- businesses. Take the Bruson Building. We all know they're holding out for national fast food chains.

It makes me wonder how the heck Pauglina happened (and how it's paying its rent.)

Offline NYC Peromyscus

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 08:51:36 AM »
LOL we're back to the wacky conspiracy theories about secret real estate cabals (the Illuminati?) preventing wealthy white people from opening businesses in JH   :o

Offline AmazingJason

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 06:24:45 PM »
Have you seen what happened to Stew and Dudley? The community board, landlords, and other relevant bodies in the neighborhood seem to be pretty hostile to small new restaurants/bars established by 'upscale' people. That's good, on one slightly perverse level, because it prevents the whole neighborhood from domino'ing over. But it's bad, on another level.
My opinion is that it's not a bad thing at all...it's 100% positive. At the same time, I'm also excited for Swim Two Birds to open. It's just that most people don't understand basic economics, and that what makes this neighborhood great in the first place would disappear if those relevant bodies didn't fight to keep it the way it is now.

Am I reading into this wrong? Are you saying it would be a 100% positive thing that CB's, landlords et al to be openly hostile to businesses operated by upscale/white people?  It seems like that is what you are saying, but the excitement for Swim 2 Birds seems to counter that.  How does economics fit into all of this?

I think hostile is a strong word. I don't think of it as being hostile, but rather that the relevant bodies prefer, want, or fight to keep the neighborhood as it is. I don't have an issue with it because I believe that JH is great just the way it is, and that greatness differentiates it with all the other neighborhoods in NYC. If someone really likes the stuff in LIC and Astoria, they can actually just go visit there since it's so close by, or they can go live there - which is what I did over a decade ago. That's just more or less my official stance of things. At the same time, none of all this is stuff I can control...whatever happens will happen...change and gentrification in NYC is inevitable, so I can also feel excited to check out Swim Two Birds when it opens. To thrive, you must ride the waves of change.

Offline MrPlaza

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 10:41:33 PM »
I thought there might have been a chance a conversation like this was going to break out.

1. @Cassat, I absolutely would be open to establishing a cocktail club. I really enjoy trying out cocktails, whether at a bar, or on my own. So, if there are others that share that interest, for sure, let's do it!

2. I don't quite understand/agree with the idea that whenever an "upscale" establishment opens, it means the end of a neighborhood's character. For starters, I simply don't believe in the dramatic domino effect that many people seem to think would undoubtedly happen. I lived in Jamaica, Queens when City Rib opened. It was the first of its kind. A upscale sit down BBQ restaurant in a sea of takeout and fast food. But it didn't change the tide of the neighborhood. In fact, the opposite happened. Despite its best efforts (and good food), it ended up succumbing to the neighborhood's interests and became a slightly more upscale version of Applebees. And the quality of its food went with it.

I simply don't subscribe to the unconditional belief that you cannot have the old and the new. And it's honestly really frustrating sometimes to hear from people who seem so categorically against any change in a neighborhood. Economics do play a part. But it's dramatic — I think — to take a single scenario of a single business, and project its implications onto the long-term character and livability of a neighborhood. One business is hardly reflective of a "trend." And it's trends that change neighborhoods.

I'm sorry, I'll get off my soapbox. But my point is that all I wanted was to discuss a good place to get good drinks. And I feel like any time something that ISN'T currently available in JH is brought up, it's labeled as upscale, yuppy, hipster, out-of-touch or character, gentrification, or some other negative connotation. Why can't it just be another dimension to an ever-growing and diversifying neighborhood? Jackson Heights, as we all know it, is only about 30 years old.

And for the record, so people don't think it's just a bunch of white yuppies who are interested in this, I'm Afro-Hispanic. So, let's not go there. This isn't a race thing.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:53:42 PM by MrPlaza »

Offline jeanette

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 11:47:38 PM »
...wish I had a bellini right about now....

Offline Palermo

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 07:51:27 AM »
@ AmazingJason: Spot on about change, best we can do is just ride the wave.

People move into a hood, they bring their culture.  Colombians did it, Ecuadorians later on and now urbanists.  No culture trumps another and should a group bring in the numbers, they get their shot, even if it's at the expense of someone else.  I can't understand for the life of me why it's okay to openly rail against the lattermost from moving into a hood and having their culture reflected in the neighborhood businesses though.

Offline ljr

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2017, 11:57:51 PM »
Interesting discussion--I have two questions for Mr. Plaza and Palermo: "JH as we all know it is only 30 years old?" Huh? I don't get what you mean. What about the historic district and the great 1920s-era architecture, garden apartments, etc?  And--what are "urbanists"?

Offline dotley

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Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2017, 06:41:40 AM »
FYI I just read on Sunnyside Post that a Craft Beer place is set to open on Roosevelt Avenue and 52 Street.  It will be called Solid State. 

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Craft Cocktails
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2017, 06:41:40 AM »