Author Topic: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets  (Read 2974 times)

Offline itsit

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Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« on: September 22, 2021, 10:05:14 AM »
  It appears that Covid will be with us for awhile longer but many in the community are back at work, in school, keeping appts, home improvements, etc. Should this be the time where we have a dialogue about the lag in use mid-day of the 34th Ave Open Streets? The darker nights that will be here shortly make for an unsafe amount of visibility for those later hours too.
  The hours that the street is happily in use seem to be early, as in the 8-10am time and then somewhere in the 2:30- 3:00 to 6-7. Opening the street to alternate needs for schools, seniors, residents, deliveries, sanitation crews, etc. would be very welcome to those who live on the avenue. It seems like a reasonable and fair compromise to have a dialogue about and it's one that neighbors would very much welcome.

Offline earbears

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2021, 11:20:22 AM »
I love your suggestions on the change of hours. I believe that the people who manage this OS would find it difficult to move the barricades so many time per day.  Perhaps we can come up with an easier plan.

We need to work together as a community to see what we can come up with. And we must remember to work around the idea that the elderly and disabled can manage it and also get their necessary services. Also remembering the disabled children using the special school buses.

Please join our discussions on FACEBOOK at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/370192364142041

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2021, 12:47:06 PM »
^^seems like you're speaking for all the residents of the avenue when you say what they as a uniform group would welcome.

Practically speaking, you have to address how to actually open up and shut down the Open Street 4 times a day. Currently, that is done by volunteers. The logistics of doubling the manpower necessary to do that makes me weary just thinking about. People have to actually manage this stuff, and those people at present are volunteers.

Rather than debating online on a forum that holds no sway with our elected representative in the city government or DoT, I think it's better to participate in the DoT's forums for the OS. There have been many, many sessions since fall 2020.

I's worth noting that just a few months ago there was a primary for the city council seat opening up. Almost every block on 34th Avenue went for the guy who supports OS. There's a general election in November. 34th Avenue residents can vote for the Libertarian who wants to end 34th Avenue OS.

Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2021, 02:50:09 PM »
 Yep and it seems like there is a bond between people who are for Open Streets etched in stone, as is, never a thought to what might work for different parties. The fear of data collection on usage is antiquated and speaks to the point that whole neighborhood planning is not on the agenda here. But rather an "I want this now, all of it, and no sharing" mentality that does not read as community oriented in my opinion. Yes, my opinion. The political office that has been spoken of brought us Diversity Plaza, right? And even Diversity Plaza was plastered with another candidates posters. My point here is we are sorely missing a collective, unbiased take on whether this closure works as some people think or as poorly as others feel. But then again it's a nice fall day to walk to Diversity Plaza and enjoy the scenery that is the result of agenda pushing by a particular group that was relentless and hijacked the planning.

  Please for the love of god, bring in real city planners who can look at the this project in an unbiased way for the good of this whole JH community. Not the DOT, not local politicians who need votes, not Transportation Alternatives. Why is there so much fear of a non-partisan evaluation here? Are volunteers going to move the barriers for years on end, for example Hoping for clarity where all sides are listened to in a reasonable fashion by outside evaluators and real bonafide city planners. They are out there and any professionally managed project would want their feedback before solidifying any plans of this magnitude.

Offline JHHD

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2021, 04:10:47 PM »
Most of the groups you identified can and do use the street during the day. There is no restriction of access, just the minor inconvenience of moving the barricade and then hopefully move it back.
In the occasional case of someone who is handicapped or too frail to move the barrier on their own, there are always other people around, and the majority of the people in our neighborhood would have no problem assisting someone who needs it if asked.
As far as the "darker" nights, we have streetlights and headlights, it's never really dark around here.

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2021, 08:50:09 AM »
Quote
Yep and it seems like there is a bond between people who are for Open Streets etched in stone, as is, never a thought to what might work for different parties. The fear of data collection on usage is antiquated and speaks to the point that whole neighborhood planning is not on the agenda here. But rather an "I want this now, all of it, and no sharing" mentality that does not read as community oriented in my opinion.

I think if you had actually participated in any of the DoT forums, you'd know this is an unequivocally false statement. People who are for the OS don't want it to stay in its present form, precisely because moving the barricades and relying upon there always being someone around to move it for drivers unable to do so is a burden.

This need to demonize those we don't agree with is dysfunctional and unproductive.

Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2021, 12:43:10 PM »
 No one wants to demonize and belief me, some of us have had mucho contact with the DOT. They say that they are not - and should not be- the last word on 34th Ave Open Streets. This project has become so divisive in the neighborhood, I do not envy their jobs either. But the lack of interest in really seriously examining what is working here and almost more importantly, not working, is incredulous to me. Why would you not want to investigate options to volunteers moving the gates in a very public and not just online forum? I personally have suggested we follow the Rockaway Boardwalk example of small golf cart-type things that NYPD Community style officers or Traffic officers drive up and down the streets, maybe 2 at the most, at a time. This might alleviate the need for heavy barriers and cones (or something lightweight) could be used as enforcement would
be nearby. This would help with the speeding e-bikes, the fears of seniors and less abled crossing or getting ride shares without getting trampled and a host of other issues.
   Yes, we have tried to ask these questions. Repeatedly. And no one wants to demonize anyone here and apologies if it comes across that way, but all highly impacted parties are not at the table, in my opinion, and we need to do a much better job evaluating this 34th Ave Open Street Project. What is the pushback about as I seriously do not understand the lack of interest to get this right?

Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2021, 12:49:46 PM »
Quote
people who are for Open Streets etched in stone, as is, never a thought to what might work for different parties.

The above is an example of demonization. "Never" and "always" is rarely a useful characterization of anyone's actions, thoughts, or motivations, that later two no one can know about another person. Grouping a bunch of people together, and giving them a label of what amounts to a complete lack of empathy (aka psychopathy), is demonization.

Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2021, 01:54:25 PM »
  Sorry but this seems like an example of wanting to divert from the main topic. It may not be the proper grammar or meaning you are aware of but did you see the part where I said apologies if it offends...?
  Is this the best dialogue we can have?

Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2021, 03:45:57 PM »
 Open Streets closure today at 6:00pm. Hallelujah that there is going to be some compromise and tailoring of the Open Streets project based on circumstances like weather. Maybe we can see a
break in the cloud cover here...








Offline CaptainFlannel

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 05:27:07 PM »
I don't think it's a question of if it offends, which in and of itself is not an apology, but rather a question of what kind of framing of other people's perspectives, motivations, and thoughts creates an atmosphere for functional communication and resolution.

We all know, or we should know anyway, that when we have a conflict with our SO, the moment one of us starts saying "you always do X" or "you never think about Y" the person saying that is very likely engaging in distorted thinking of has a distorted perception, because almost no one always or never does anything. It also immediately puts our partners in the position of having to defend themselves. The same holds true for community based conversations. If people could just stop painting those who hold a different opinion as the devil incarnate, maybe a productive conversation could happen.

And finally, I think a lot of people think of DoT as an agency that can be relied upon to act based on data. Whatever the administration is obviously influences direction. But given who the next mayor likely is, I wouldn't count on a loss of city support for the OS program.

Offline lindsey

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2021, 10:00:59 AM »
Probably won't make sense to end Open Streets now, since soon every single school on 34th Ave. is going to be using those streets for outdoor recess, inshallah.  ;D

Offline Asta

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2021, 10:49:02 AM »
Yep and it seems like there is a bond between people who are for Open Streets etched in stone, as is, never a thought to what might work for different parties. The fear of data collection on usage is antiquated and speaks to the point that whole neighborhood planning is not on the agenda here. But rather an "I want this now, all of it, and no sharing" mentality that does not read as community oriented in my opinion. Yes, my opinion. The political office that has been spoken of brought us Diversity Plaza, right? And even Diversity Plaza was plastered with another candidates posters. My point here is we are sorely missing a collective, unbiased take on whether this closure works as some people think or as poorly as others feel. But then again it's a nice fall day to walk to Diversity Plaza and enjoy the scenery that is the result of agenda pushing by a particular group that was relentless and hijacked the planning.

  Please for the love of god, bring in real city planners who can look at the this project in an unbiased way for the good of this whole JH community. Not the DOT, not local politicians who need votes, not Transportation Alternatives. Why is there so much fear of a non-partisan evaluation here? Are volunteers going to move the barriers for years on end, for example Hoping for clarity where all sides are listened to in a reasonable fashion by outside evaluators and real bonafide city planners. They are out there and any professionally managed project would want their feedback before solidifying any plans of this magnitude.

Not sure where you get the idea that there is a fear of data collection on the part of the people who support the Open Street/ Linear Park.  Just because you say this does not make it true.  The supporters are not the people in charge of the data collection, or the planning of the future Open Street/ Linear Park.  I'm pretty sure all of us wholeheartedly support data and feel it would back up what we know - that the program is an overwhelming popular, life changing improvement for the majority of people in the neighborhood. 

The strongest voices against the Open Street continually argue in bad faith, spread rumors, use the tragedy of the 89th St. fire to push their agenda (against the continued request of the actual residents of that building to stop, and even though the fire department has confirmed they were not impeded by the Open Street), argue that the people pushing for a Linear Park do not live in Jackson Heights or do not live on 34th Avenue, which is easily researched and debunked. These people argue that the OS is bad for people with disabilities and elderly people, while dismissing actual people with disabilities and elderly people who support the program.  The people against the OS are creating a false argument that somehow the supporters want conflict between pedestrians & bikes, that we want to impede people from getting grocery deliveries, or being picked up by access-a-ride.  We, of course, don't want those things - we just feel that any of them can be addressed with good design.

I'm not sure, itsit, who you think you think you are convincing by continually posting about this here - it's a bit like posting anonymous complaints about your co-op board in the public spaces in your building - it may feel good, but it's not actually doing anything to accomplish what you say you want

Offline itsit

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2021, 11:40:07 AM »
 Yes, amen to good design. By non partisan folks who are qualified in the field. Or we end up with Diversity
Plaza or another bike rack that is mostly used in front of PS398 to go with the ones on either end of the short
block already.

Offline Shelby2

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Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2021, 11:56:19 AM »
Probably won't make sense to end Open Streets now, since soon every single school on 34th Ave. is going to be using those streets for outdoor recess, inshallah.  ;D

Sounds dangerous with the ebikes, mopeds, bikes and scooters routinely going much faster than 5 mph and weaving in and out.

Jackson Heights Life

Re: Conversation about Mid- day changes to Open Streets
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2021, 11:56:19 AM »